Reasons to avoid ZSNES for DKC gaming...

A board for emulation discussion. Logically, SNES emulation talk is what this board is for, but discussion of Game Boy, GBA, N64 and NDS emulation is also welcome. Relevance to DKC is preferable.
Forum rules
Remember; posting/requesting ROMs is not allowed. General ROM/emulation talk is fine, of course.

Reasons to avoid ZSNES for DKC gaming...

Postby Qyzbud » April 20th, 2008, 7:09 pm

This topic is not just about accurate graphic emulation, but this post is based around the graphical side of things.

I've always been a fan of ZSNES, but although it's a great emulator, it seems to fall behind Snes9x (and other emulators) when handling certain elements. The midground terrain of Bleak's House in DKC3 is a good example:

emu-compare-bleak.png
emu-compare-bleak.png (36.55 KiB) Viewed 15955 times


The above screenshots show a comparison of how the current (as of this post) versions of these two emulators display the terrain of Bleak's House in DKC3. As you can see, the midground is somewhat garbled in the ZSNES screenshot.

Another way that Snes9x seems to better ZSNES is that it correctly displays the bottom line of the display, whereas ZSNES displays a solid line of area-dependant colour instead.

One last observation I've made is that the ZSNES screenshot is fractionally darker than the Snes9x one, although this would appear to be an 'error' of Snes9x, as the slightly darker screen of ZSNES perfectly matches terrain graphics extracted using vSNES.
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Stone » April 21st, 2008, 1:08 am

In the mapping project I only use SNES9XW_XE_PPRO, I hope this isn't that bad...
The midground terrain looks really buggy, I wonder that this isn't already fixed, DKC3 is at least one of the more well-known SNES games (I've never completely finished :roll: )
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 48
Posts: 468
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Kiddy14 » April 21st, 2008, 2:44 am

That's weird, that ZSNES glitch never happened to me. =/
Expedition Leader
Bananas received 25
Posts: 1134
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Blaziken257 » April 21st, 2008, 8:30 am

I've heard that the ZSNES emulator can't emulate Klobber Karnage properly. The barrels rotate on their own!
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 108
Posts: 333
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Kiddy14 » April 21st, 2008, 9:19 am

Not only Klobber Karnage, other levels like Barrel Bayou or Chain Link Chamber also have that problem. Most likely the rotable barrels never stop moving after you started moving them.
Expedition Leader
Bananas received 25
Posts: 1134
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Qyzbud » April 21st, 2008, 2:57 pm

Yeah, that's very weird. Snes9x handles the rotatable barrels just fine... but it seems that when you first rotate one of these barrels in a level, ZSNES will cause the barrel to keep rotating. You can change the direction of rotation, but can't stop the barrel from rotating except by firing out of it. Even after leaving a barrel, ZSNES 'remembers' which direction you last rotated, and will then use that direction for the next barrel you enter, be it the same one, or one elsewhere in the level.

There seem to be numerous reasons to avoid ZSNES when it comes to DKC gaming... :roll:
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Cody » April 22nd, 2008, 3:37 pm

Snes9x handles the rotatable barrels just fine...

That's funny; an older version of Snes9x had this glitch too. There was also a glitch where you couldn't open an animal buddy crate, making Bramble Scramble impossible.

One last observation I've made is that the ZSNES screenshot is fractionally darker than the Snes9x one, although this would appear to be an 'error' of Snes9x, as the slightly darker screen of ZSNES perfectly matches terrain graphics extracted using vSNES.

The direct screenshot feature of Snes9x sadly does make it a little bit lighter, though when displayed on the emulator directly, it matches vSNES' extraction colors perfectly.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 56
Posts: 492
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Stone » April 22nd, 2008, 11:52 pm

Now things are getting complex, I don't know in which way I should take screenshots with my SNES9X emu for the mapping project...
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 48
Posts: 468
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Qyzbud » April 23rd, 2008, 12:33 am

Cody wrote:The direct screenshot feature of Snes9x sadly does make it a little bit lighter, though when displayed on the emulator directly, it matches vSNES' extraction colors perfectly.

How do you compare the emulator's display with vSNES graphics?
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Cody » April 23rd, 2008, 7:49 pm

Print Screen. I had to use the Snes9x emulator and vSNES together rip Criss Cross Cliffs' layout, and the only way I could use Snes9x was via Print Screen...thankfully, they both maintain the same, accurate color palette displayed in the original game.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 56
Posts: 492
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Qyzbud » April 23rd, 2008, 10:39 pm

And you just look at the two of them side by side? Or do you switch between them to find differences? Switching between them usually lets one with a keen eye spot subtle differences, but you can take things one step further and have Photoshop (if you have access to it) mathematically analyse the difference between images using the 'difference' blending mode.

Explanation/tutorial enclosed (because it would probably bore most people...)
Spoiler!
To accurately analyse any differences between images within Photoshop, start by pasting both images as layers within a Ps document. Ensure that one overlaps the other completely, then change the top layer's blend mode from 'Normal' to 'Difference' in the Layers window/panel. If the images are identical, the 'difference' blend will cause the image to display as pure black. Any differences between the images/layers will cause the display to not be pure black. Usually this will enable you to see any differences more clearly than when using the switching technique, but to be absolutely sure, follow the advice below.

If there is a uniform increase/decrease in brightness, you may have a pure colour other than black; the Info panel or the Color Picker will let you check this. Black will show up as R: 0, G: 0, B: 0. Anything other than 0 0 0 is non-black, and therefore, the image is not a perfect match. Now you can use the Magic Wand Tool to analyse the black (or mostly/partially black) display, and check for 'impurities', which indicate differences. Set the Magic Wand Tool's 'Tolerance' to 0, 'Anti-alias' off and 'Sample All Layers' on. The 'Contiguous' option is up to you... either on or off will tell you valid info, but setting to 'on' is probably more interesting. Now click on the black area. If your whole black image is selected, it's a perfect match. If you see one or more 'subselections' (meaning partial areas of the image are selected), the images are not a perfect match.


Assuming that your comparison is accurate, this means ZSNES screenshots, vSNES rips and Snes9x Prt Scrn captures are all true to the original palette's colours, but there is a distortion (brightness increase) when using Snes9x's own snapshot saving function. Does that sound right?

Hmm... this kind of discussion isn't much to do with actual gaming, is it... I guess it really belongs in the mapping topic. If we talk any further about this screenshotting colour accuracy, let's do it there instead. I'll probably put this kind of info in some sort of mapping tutorial/reference thread that I can link people to if they are interested.
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Raccoon Sam » May 26th, 2008, 3:37 am

If you're after a perfect SNES-experience, I suggest BSNES. It differs from ZSNES and SNES9X by its focus on emulation accuracy, not speed.
Trailblazer
Bananas received 35
Posts: 265
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Stone » May 26th, 2008, 6:55 am

Speed sounds more suiting for my 3 years old PC. But in a few years I might enjoy playing on BSNES :D
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 48
Posts: 468
Joined: 2008

Re: Best SNES emulators for DKC gaming?

Postby Teeth » June 24th, 2008, 4:56 am

I just noticed another difference between ZSNES and SNES9x - If you die when riding Squawks, in ZSNES your Kong falls offscreen and Squawks just stays there smiling and flapping his wings. But on SNES9x he falls offscreen too!

EDIT: Oh my god...I just downloaded BNES...it's bloody perfect! The sound is just like on a real SNES! :mrgreen:
Tourist
Posts: 34
Joined: 2008

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Gaz » September 13th, 2013, 2:24 pm

Compare the following images (excluding the Candy heart shape on the top):

Spoiler!
Image and Image.


The only difference (which is quite a pointless one too) is that the text was shifted higher in the retail version.
User avatar
Gaz
Taster of Pork
Bananas received 47
Posts: 642
Joined: 2011

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Qyzbud » September 13th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Comment no longer relevant now that posts have been moved:
Spoiler!
I wouldn't exactly call that 'unused content'... did you mean to post this in another topic?
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Gaz » September 14th, 2013, 1:14 am

If there is a better topic, sure. I just didn't know where else to post my pointless find :P.
User avatar
Gaz
Taster of Pork
Bananas received 47
Posts: 642
Joined: 2011

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Mattrizzle » September 14th, 2013, 5:59 am

On top of that, Qyzbud, there isn't an actual difference here. The text is lower due to inaccuracies in how ZSNES emulates HDMA. See my next post.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 171
Posts: 390
Joined: 2008

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Qyzbud » September 14th, 2013, 10:29 am

Ah, good to know; I did consider this a possibility (I know ZSNES doesn't get DKC's text quite right), but never actually cross-checked with a more accurate reference.

I have now moved these recent posts to a ZSNES-relevant topic.
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Reasons to avoid ZSNES for DKC gaming...

Postby Mattrizzle » September 15th, 2013, 2:27 am

Actually, I could be wrong. In bsnes, the text appears at the same height as in ZSNES:
Attachments
candy_bsnes.png
candy_bsnes.png (47.2 KiB) Viewed 14423 times
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 171
Posts: 390
Joined: 2008

Re: Reasons to avoid ZSNES for DKC gaming...

Postby Qyzbud » September 15th, 2013, 11:56 am

Well I'll be damned...

Personally I think it looks better in the original (scanned) screenshot; do you suppose they shifted it up a bit in order to more neatly accommodate a third line of text?
Atlas Author
Bananas received 671
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008


Return to Emulation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest