Animal Buddy Stuff

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Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » April 26th, 2009, 10:25 am

I decided to bring a topic from the Barrel Cannon here.

Original Link: http://dkc-barrelcannon.forumotion.com/ ... -t9.htm#37

by the way, on the Barrel Cannon, I'm known as Diddy Kong, not FefeRawft.

Diddy Kong wrote:Squawks, Quawks, and Flapper. Are they related?

Also in DK63, there are multiple parrots.

Either there is more than one Squawks (Explaining his job change.)

or

There are many parrots and the most famous are Squawks, Quawks, and Flapper. (Squawks changed job and size, so with this theory, Squawks grew up between DKC and DKC2.)

I believe #2 the most.


Yes I said DK63, by accident.

Sockpuppet wrote:
Diddy Kong wrote:There are many parrots and the most famous are Squawks, Quawks, and Flapper. (Squawks changed job and size, so with this theory, Squawks grew up between DKC and DKC2.)

I think this. Squawks at least is referred to as an individual in the manuals/ by Cranky, I think.
Also, Flapper's not an official name. I reckon Parrot Chute Panic parrot and DKC3 parrot are the same parrot, just with a different design (slightly different color.) And as revealed in Barrel Blast it's name is Quawks.
Squawks is also a slightly different color in the third game.


Diddy Kong wrote:
Sockpuppet wrote:Also, Flapper's not an official name. I reckon Parrot Chute Panic parrot and DKC3 parrot are the same parrot, just with a different design (slightly different color.) And as revealed in Barrel Blast it's name is Quawks.
Squawks is also a slightly different color in the third game.


I know that Flapper is an unofficial name, but I would rather call him that than blue parrot.

Also I though that they were the same parrot doing the same thing that Squawks did, change jobs. But, I realized that they are differant colors, more off than Squawks for DKC2, to DKC3. They also are the same size, so he would have had no reason to change jobs, also barrels are lighter than Kongs, so Flapper must be stronger. Even though Rambi also changed colors, there was no other rhino that could have taken his place.

Does that make sense?


Sockpuppet wrote:'Flapper' could only be ridden, and he wasn't strong enough to fly with the Kongs. He only fell really slowly. Quawks could only be transformed into, so because he had no Kongs he could lift barrels. As you said, they're lighter so he can fly. So they could be the same parrot.


SK wrote:See, I tend to lean towards the idea of there being multiples of an Animal Buddy. So in this case Squawks only appeared in DKC, DK64, and DKBB. So there were many different Sqauwks look-a-likes all over the Northern Kremisphere and Krockodile Isle. Same for Quawks/Squeaks/Flapper.


Diddy Kong wrote:Huh, that makes sense, but I had always thought that the animal buddies traveled with them all around. But now that I think of it, Crocodile Isle isn't as far away from DK Island as the Northern Kremisphere is. So I am starting to think that only the animal buddies that can make it to the Northern Kremisphere (By air and water) would explain the absence of Rambi in DKC.

About Expresso....

If my theory is true, why isn't Expresso in DKC2?
Possibly he died, that would explain Expresso II

About Rambi....

Possibly Rambi stumbled onto Gangplank Galleon and got shipped to Crocodile Isle
or
He got crated and shipped to Crocodile Isle

About Ratty....

Like I said only airborne and water animal buddies made it to DKC3, and Rattly might have been already living in Crocodile Isle, explaining his absence in non-crocodile isle games.

About Squitter....

Squitter can be on land or AIRBORNE! Yes, I said airborne, think of his webs, all he had to do is make a platform to walk down to the Northern Kremisphere.

About Winky....

The same thing with Rattly, maybe he just couldn't make it off of his home island.

About Ellie and Parry....

Maybe they were already in the Northern Kremisphere.

About Quawks and Flapper....

@ Sockpuppet: I'm starting to think you're right. Maybe they are the same parrot.

About Rambi and Ellie....

If Rambi didn't come to Crocodile Isle by one of the listed methods, maybe he, like Ellie, could swim. And then, he stayed back to protect DK Island during DKC3, because a rhino is not built to swim long distances.



This is why I think that there is only one of each animal buddy.


Diddy Kong wrote:In the GBA port of DKC2, there are many ostriches, but they all have different names.

Also, if there really is more than one of each animal buddy, than wouldn't they be called Rambi II or Squawks III?


Discuss, I want to hear people's opinions on this.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Kiddy14 » April 29th, 2009, 3:08 pm

It's kind of interesting how "Flapper" and Quawks may be the same parrot, considering Rambi and Squawks got palette changes too.
But I've never looked into the idea of "multiple" look-alikes of the Buddies.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » April 30th, 2009, 9:58 am

Kiddy14 wrote:But I've never looked into the idea of "multiple" look-alikes of the Buddies.


Like I said, why wouldn't they have roman numerals after their names like Expresso II did?
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby BlueTronic » April 30th, 2009, 10:44 am

Expresso II? Where is that from?
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » April 30th, 2009, 11:26 am

GBA version of DKC2
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Kiddy14 » April 30th, 2009, 2:17 pm

I was talking about SK's commentary up there =P
If it was like that, then Squawks would be just a breed of parrots; or something like that.

You know something interesting about Expresso II; when Cranky tells you his "surprise", he asks for a name and says Expresso sounds good, but with an expression as if he didn't know Expresso. Then the game keeps calling it Expresso II.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » May 2nd, 2009, 10:16 am

I'm kinda only half paying attention here.... anyway, I'm pretty sure there is no such bird as "Flapper", it's just a name (along with Squeaks) that the DKU gave to the purple parrots to distinguish them from Squawks, and to distinguish the two that appear on screen at the same time. Later Paon named the purple parrot "Quawks", so they just substitued that for Squeaks...
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby BlueTronic » May 2nd, 2009, 10:50 am

They should've called him Double Expresso.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » May 2nd, 2009, 12:30 pm

Why Double Expresso? Unless hes two headed? That would be weird, but awesome.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby BlueTronic » May 2nd, 2009, 1:05 pm

Expresso is another way to spell espresso. So instead of double espresso, he could be Double Expresso.

I can see how not many people would get the pun.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby The Kirby » May 2nd, 2009, 10:08 pm

It's kind of difficult trying to make sense of all the different animal buddies between DKC universe games. For example, it's possible for there to be two Enguarde's in Coral Capers, not to mention two Rambi's in Pirate Panic. Rareware seems to have tried different things to limit these odd duplicates, such as in the case of the two Rambis in DKC2, having the one you're riding get hurt and run away as soon as you open the duplicate's crate. I can't think of any instances of there being doubles of animal buddies in DKC3, unless my memory has failed me (I know that animal crates in DKC3 are extremely rare.)

I don't really consider the existence of multiple Squawkses in DK64 to be too problematic, since I just think of them as different, unnamed individuals of Squawks' species that just live on the island. I trust that most people won't think that that's a radical idea. I'm curious, are any of the parrots in DK64 even named 'Squawks'?

The theory that the two palette-swap Squawks look-a-likes (phew, quite a tongue-twister...) between DKC2 and DKC3 are the same bird (or birds) is a possible interpretation, considering that, as others have mentioned, that Rambi also got a palette change between two DKC games, but was still referred to as the same Rambi, and that DKC3's manual mentions that Squawks has relatives (note the plural) that can carry barrels, which is odd, because we only see one purple parrot at a time, which would make the use of the plural unnecessary unless we assume that the DKC3 manual was vaguely eluding to the existence of the blue parrots in DKC2.

Of course, neither DKC2 or its manual mentions the blue parrots in Parrot Chute Panic having any relation to Squawks, not even to say that they exist.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » May 3rd, 2009, 3:57 am

The Kirby wrote:Rareware seems to have tried different things to limit these odd duplicates

....

I'm curious, are any of the parrots in DK64 even named 'Squawks'?


Exactly, they try to limit these because there is only one of each animal buddy. I had mentioned what you said about the palette swap and still being called Rambi and not Rambi II. "Rambi the Rhino", that's like saying "FefeRawft the Idiot", his name, then what he is (Uh.... pretend I didn't say idiot). Name, NAME! How common is it to have more than one rhino named Rambi that has the same title, "the Rhino". Think back in history "Louis the Pious", "Charles the Hammer", "Charles the Bald", "Charles the Great". Sure they can have the same name, but are there two Charles the Hammers? No.

And yes, I think the parrot that talks to you is Squawks.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby The Kirby » May 3rd, 2009, 7:32 am

There really is no way to conclusively end this issue, since it would depend on what one would consider canon. A person’s personal preference on what is and isn’t canon could vary, like assuming that in-game evidence is more valuable than instruction manual evidence, or that the latter shouldn’t even be considered at all. Some people even say that the ports of the DKC games shouldn’t be considered canon, which would rule out Expresso II (sometimes it’s logical; DKC3 GBA has you protecting different Kongs, one of which is a duplicate of Dixie, which is very obviously false.)

For example, most people would probably agree that glitches/bugs shouldn't be considered canon within' a videogame universe.

With that in mind, we can turn to those instances where we see multiple Enguardes in Coral Capers and Expressos in Orang-utan Gang. In the case of Enguarde, you could reason two things:

1. Rareware took gameplay as a priority, so they decided to place an extra Enguarde in Coral Capers as a means to helping new players on the first water level in the game; ignoring the problem this posed to Enguarde's individuality.

2. They always thought of there being multiple 'Enguardes'.

This also applies to duplicated Expressos in Orang-utan Gang, but the first possibility would probably be changed to something along the lines of an oversight on the part of the developers (a glitch/bug, you might say.)

These two possibilities are at the heart of the problem, and the games contradict each other when it comes to this. We have no idea, for example, to say that when we see multiple Enguardes in DKC that they're just different individuals of the same species, since DKC explicitly mentions there being a swordfish named Enguarde but never mentions there being multiple swordfish of his species that help you. DK64 sort of destroys the concept of animal buddy individuality, due in part to the multiple Squawks-like parrots we see in that game's cutscenes, and I reckon that that's what gets people to start reading that back into the DKC games, despite the fact that those games never mention it (also worth noting is that there aren’t any duplicates of Enguarde or Rambi in this game.)

In the case of the alternate-colored Squawks parrots, it's less problematic, since DKC2 doesn't even mention there being individual blue parrots, and often shows the parrots together frequently throughout the level. Without referencing DK64, and no official source to verify individuality, it's probably safe to say that they're multiple individuals of a species.

The purple parrots in DKC3 are a bit more indecisive, since they’re referred to as ‘relatives’ in the instruction manual, which could either be interpreted as them being a different, yet closely related species to Squawks, or close relatives that just happen to be a different color. Either way, they’re unnamed, so they aren’t unique (although, only one purple Squawks appears at a time, so the existence of the plural is questionable.) I think I’ll retract my position on the DKC2 and DKC3 parrots being the same, mainly due to lack of official evidence and that it seems odd that if the blue parrots would be too weak to carry Kongs, but barrels, that would mean that Squawks would be able to carry them, too.

Out of curiosity: you say that DK64 identifies a unique parrot named 'Squawks', but do you have any in-game or instruction manual sources for this?
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » May 3rd, 2009, 1:01 pm

I'm pretty sure that either the instructions or a strategy guide says that Squawks is the one that talks to you, but the others are just family. I don't know what I did with the manual, but I have the game and guide in front of me, so I'll check and get back to you.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » May 29th, 2009, 8:08 am

Hmm... I just realized this, but does anyone else find it strange that the DKU gave names to the two purple parrots, and yet have never made mention of the Blue parrot from DKC3?

Anyway, the way I see it, there are most certainly two purple parrots, and they are significant characters(unlock the flocks of nameless parrots in DK64), and the blue parrot from DKC3 is a unique significant character too. The second Enguarde, Rambi, and Expresso's on screen that you can find should not be considered canon because it was clear they were either unintended glitches or intentional decisions by Rare for gameplay purposes, and thus should be ignored.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » May 29th, 2009, 9:15 am

Jomingo wrote:The second Enguarde, Rambi, and Expresso's on screen that you can find should not be considered canon because it was clear they were either unintended glitches or intentional decisions by Rare for gameplay purposes, and thus should be ignored.


I completely agree with this.

Wow, It's been a while since anyone posted here.

Also, the blue parrot was DKC2, not three. I don't seem to remember there being two purple parrots. There is Quawks, for DK:BB, and he is assumed to be the one in DKC3. I've never seen the DK64 purples, but I know they're real. Are those the two you are talking about?
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » May 29th, 2009, 10:47 am

In the DKC2 levels while you slowly fall down the level, occasionally you get bucked off of the Purple parrot you are riding, only to land upon a second purple parrot. You will almost always encounter two parrots on screen at the same time.

Also, I thought the parrots in DKC3 that you transform into and can pick up barrels with were blue. Maybe I was wrong.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby The Kirby » May 29th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Jomingo, I used to find the DKU not describing the purple parrot in DKC3 to be a bit irritating (piled on top of all the fanon material they made up anyway.) Especially strange considering that the parrots between games have different abilities, which makes you wonder why they didn't investigate more closely.

Also, why does the DKU insist that there are only two DKC2 parrots? Maybe each parrot we see in Parrot Chute Panic is an individual parrot? Sure, we only see two blue parrots on-screen at a time, but surely you wouldn't think of every new Zinger enemy you encountered in a level were the same Zingers repeated over and over.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » May 30th, 2009, 6:17 am

Well, I believe the difference was that they thought if their were a bunch of them then they would lose their significance as characters, and thus the idea that they would loop around arose.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby The Kirby » June 1st, 2009, 3:35 am

These are three conditions I can think of that would be considered to determine whether a character is an individual or a species:

1. How many times we see this character appear in a single stage/level.

2. How many instances of the character appear on screen at once.

3. If the character(s) has an official name(s) and whether that name seems unique to a character rather than a race/species (contrast Donkey from Kremling.)

Let's look at some of the more questionable characters:

First, we have Enguarde/Expresso/Rambi, who can have multiple instances on screen at once. I've already discussed Enguarde, who is probably the most indecisive of them all. You can see multiple Expressos, but doing so takes unordinary backtracking in the levels which he appears, which some people might not count. Multiple Rambis can be seen in DKC2, but if you attempt to break a crate while riding Rambi, he'll run away, which hints that Rareware was aware of the continuity problem this created, so implemented this to avoid it. Further evidence of this is that DKC3 seems to avoid animal buddy duplicates by making animal crates extremely rare (I can only think of about three levels which use them.)

Clapper (has a name) from DKC2 appears throughout Lava Lagoon/Clapper's Cavern, yet only one instance of him appears on screen at once. So either he's a single individual moving around the level with you or it's a species of seals throughout the level. He has a unique name, which seems to suggest the first possibility.

Kuff 'n' Klout, the kremling twins that appear in DKC3 are odd... they obviously have a unique name rather than a species name (why have a name for each if that weren't the case?) We see them appear throughout a single level, and in one instance, in the second bonus level (get the coin) of Tyrant Twin Tussel, we actually see two of them on screen at once.

The blue parrots in DKC2 probably fit Kuff 'n' Klout's scenario the most closely, although, I wouldn't consider it good enough reason to give them two unique names as opposed to giving them one, single species name (Like Parrot Chute or something.) The reason I think this is because I think we'd get more misses than hits if we tried it. Assume, for a minute, that all the enemies/characters in the DKC games didn't have names... we could say that Cat o' 9 Tails are two individuals, since we only see one or two at once, and they're rather uncommon enemies anyway.

Personally, I consider the blue parrots to be a species, but to be fair, I think it would be better for any neutral character encyclopedia regarding the DKC universe to state the ambiguity of a character's individuality and name, rather than inventing names and backstory so that it fills in gaps in knowledge. This also includes a realistic look at the medium, acknowledging that these are games, and aren't subject to strict continuity rules like we see in reality or well-written fiction. State the facts, and keep it at that. Not saying that people can't think up theories, but I just expect databases to have less creative bias and personal opinion in them.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Lanky Kong » July 2nd, 2009, 1:25 pm

In the Beta Version of DKC, is going to be a Giraffe as a Animal Buddy, is true?
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Cyclone » July 2nd, 2009, 1:37 pm

Yea I think I read somewhere in an interview that they were considering that idea.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » July 2nd, 2009, 2:35 pm

It was Scribes where that was confirmed. I was quite disappointed one day, because one of my very own letters was answered in the November 5th, 2008 edition of Scribes, and in said email I mentioned the giraffe. My question was, "You revealed once that a Giraffe animal buddy was considered for Donkey Kong Country. Were there any other animals that never made it past the drawing board? Perhaps a Hippo or something?". The part that disappointed me was the response:
"Probably, but Gregg's in America or moving house or something at the moment and can't provide any specifics. I'll just claim in his place that the game originally featured an alpaca and a giant earwig."

So because the only one who could answer my question wasn't around, I got nothing of value. I've considered resubmitting the question, as it's been almost a year.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby FefeRawft » July 2nd, 2009, 2:38 pm

Hmm... an alpaca, that would be pretty interesting.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » July 2nd, 2009, 2:47 pm

I disagree. Both of Mr. Loveday's responses (an alpaca and an earwig) would not be interesting, they would be useless and boring, which makes his non-response even more disappointing for me. Had he given fake but good ideas, perhaps I would have been a bit happier...
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby BlueTronic » July 2nd, 2009, 3:24 pm

A giraffe? That would've been interesting. They would have to make a tall box. :roll:
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Jomingo » July 2nd, 2009, 3:40 pm

Yeah, I believe the idea was that you would be able to climb up and down it's neck to grab items that were high up.
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Re: Animal Buddy Stuff

Postby Rare Lover » July 2nd, 2009, 4:15 pm

Which become pointless with Winky or Rattly.
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