Which levels can be completed in reverse?

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Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm

I thought some of you adventurers might want to take on a bit of a unique gameplay mission.

So here it is;

Find out which levels can be completed... in reverse!

(Same challenge in other games: DKC2, DKC3)

That's right, play through the level, taking out as many or as few baddies as you like (some may be useful to leave around as stepping stones, perhaps...), stop at the exit point, and then try to make your way back to the beginning. I'm sure that this will be very little challenge in some levels, and completely impossible in others. I'm hoping there are some levels which can be completed in reverse, but which require clever techniques, good timing, quick maneuvers... Or even extreme measures (including losing a Kong, or glitching the game). Using shortcuts/warps is fine, too. I'll have to have 'categories' for for such techniques as using animal buddies glitched in from other levels, though. ;)

We can note extra details like 'can only be done with Diddy' or 'can only be done by re-entering at the midway point' etc... Oh and courtesy of two astonishing tricks (known as 'Token Warping' and 'Jumprolls') brought to my attention by Tompa and Arne, there are levels which can technically be reverse-navigated, but in a way which is somewhat outside of the scope of this challenge. For example, 'Token Warping' requires the player to enter the level with 2 of a certain Animal Token, collect a third in that level, play the animal bonus round (which takes a while!), be returned to the level at a previously visited point, and return to the start of the level. As you can see- not so much of a fun challenge as it is a cumbersome technicality. Still, an interesting concept to take note of.

Completion technique key:

Impossible (thus far)
Standard play
Sacrifice a Kong
Minor Glitching
Extreme Glitching
* = Possible via token warping

Current checklist:

Kongo Jungle (3/5)
Jungle Hijinxs
Ropey Rampage
Reptile Rumble
Coral Capers
Barrel Cannon Canyon*

Monkey Mines (5/5)
Winky's Walkway
Mine Cart Carnage ** using repeated 'air roll/jump' trick ** must re-enter at continue point ** level uncompletable at end **
Bouncy Bonanza
Stop & Go Station
Millstone Mayhem

Vine Valley (4/6)
Vulture Culture
Tree Top Town*
Forest Frenzy ** using 'endless rope' trick **
Temple Tempest
Orang-utan Gang
Clam City

Gorilla Glacier (3/^)
Snow Barrel Blast
Slipslide Ride
Ice Age Alley
Croctopus Chase ** using 'split-up' trick **
Torchlight Trouble*
Rope Bridge Rumble

Kremkroc Industries Inc. (3/6)
Oil Drum Alley
Trick Track Trek* ** using 'jumproll' trick, maybe **
Elevator Antics
Poison Pond ? (untested)
Mine Cart Madness ** using repeated 'air roll/jump' trick ** must re-enter at continue point (?) **
Blackout Basement

Chimp Caverns (4/5)
Tanked Up Trouble ** using 'jumproll' trick **
Manic Mincers
Misty Mine
Loopy Lights
Platform Perils*
Last edited by Qyzbud on September 13th, 2015, 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Updated checklist with currently reverse-completable stats, changed some wording/formatting
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Tompa » March 12th, 2008, 5:20 pm

Winky's walkway
Mine Cart Carnage if you use the roll and jump in the air glitch.
Bouncy Banana
Stop and go Station
Millstone Mayhem

All of world two.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 12th, 2008, 5:56 pm

Nice work, Tompa. :D

You mean Mine Cart Carnage, right? That repeated midair super-jump trick/glitch requires you to come back at midway, so I'd better note that...

Stop & Go Station must be a devilishly tricky one! I'll give that a try now.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Tompa » March 12th, 2008, 7:12 pm

Yeah, haha, I meant carnage.

Stop & Go Station isn't that hard really. You can pretty easily do it without even using the Stop/go barrels.

Going to continue with world 3 right now.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 12th, 2008, 8:47 pm

Sure, doing the level without using the Stop/Go barrels isn't all that hard going forwards... but those bloody RockKrocs just appear out of NOWHERE when you try it backwards! Sheesh. Like those guys weren't creepy enough already. So I managed to do it, but I must say it took a few lives... and the DK barrels came in handy. :oops:

Also I haven't checked 'em all yet, but I think the MCC midair super-jump glitch only works in certain versions of the game. I can't get it happening on my usual one.

Good luck with Vine Valley! Something tells me only two or three of 'em could be possible. Hopefully I'll be wrong! :D
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Tompa » March 13th, 2008, 1:55 am

Bah, I reached a lot further in Vulture Culture than I thought was possible
Image

If I could manage to reach the ground, it would be the whole way (Nearly). Currently playing TTT, could be possible with some glitching. Which I really doubt.

Nope, impossible.

Edit: Well, actually possible if you take the animal coin in the end so you will be teleported back to start :D.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Arne_the_great » March 13th, 2008, 2:22 am

Interesting Thread. I was just now discussing this with Tompa. I tried Barrel cannon canyon and it was so close with using jumprolls but it seems impossible. (Edit: BCC is possible by collecting the token in the bonus.)

By the way, we tested Vine Valley and every level can be completed in reverse except Vulture Culture.
Tree Top Town can be completed by collecting the Expresso token while already having two.
Forest Frenzy can be completed by using the endless rope trick (Hold down and climb how far up you want) and making a huge jump to the end and back to the rope and repeat it :) If that would count as being at the end.
Temple Tempest - No annoying obstacles here. Expresso saves the day!
Orang-utan-gang - Same here. Expresso saves the evening!
Clam City - No comment : )
We're gonna check the next world now ;)

Edit!:
Tompa and I are just done with testing Gorilla Glacier and the possible ones are:
Slipslide ride - No comment
Ice-age Alley - Expresso saves the day
Croctopus Chase - With the spit-up trick (Or bringing an animal=
Torchlight Trouble - The token in the last bonus (yes it's lame!)
But we're unsure about Rope Bridge, we've almost made the roll back to the platforms but it might be possible with a jumproll but we've only succeeded with such enemies only once and it seems really difficult.
Off to the next world! ^^

I think that what stages in DKC2 can be completed in reverse is more interesting and suprsingly, I would say that most actually are with severe glitching :) Even stages like Bramble Blast (I think it's called that)

// Arne
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 13th, 2008, 3:10 am

Hey, that's real clever using the Animal Tokens to be relocated... I knew that it happens, but I didn't think to use it for this reverse-play mission. Of course that's a pretty 'extreme measure', so I'll make sure to note it as a different category of completion. Ones like Mine Cart Carnage and Forest Frenzy will have to be another category again, as they make extensive use of glitches, and you can't 'stop at the end' exactly. Well you can in Mine Cart Carnage, but the level is uncompletable like that... So in a way you aren't really 'at the end', but still you are physically there. Sounds like a strange detail to fuss over, but hey- it's a strange mission we're on here, right?

Tompa, I'd like to hear how you got so darn far back through Vulture Culture... A little bit of help from Mini-Necky's nuts?

Arne, you said "it was so close with using jumprolls" ...How far did you manage to get? I'm pretty sure BCC is impossible.

Anyhow, amazing stuff guys. You have just the kind of brains and talent DKC Atlas is all about! :D
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Arne_the_great » March 13th, 2008, 3:27 am

Well, thank you, Qyzbud. : )
About BCC, I came to the middle barrel but I meant more like that it was close by using a glitch to roll past these barrels. Jumproll is not rolling and then jump. It's a more of a secret trick we don't want to give away right now as we would like it as a suprise for the next speedrun.

By the way, Kremkroc Industries:
Oil drum alley - No comment.
Trick Track Trek - The token at the end. I haven't tested this out but I'm pretty sure it's possible using the jumproll trick but there's a chance it isn't.
Elevator Antics - Tompa reports he didn't succeed and I think it's not possible.
Poison Pond - Pretty sure this one's possible and would probably be with glitching anyway.
Mine Cart Madness - There's two ways. One is by the last bonus, make the mid-air jump trick and jump as high as you can and jump all the way to the second bonus and make another mid-air jumping. The other way is a jumproll again :)
Blackout basement - Donkey must be sacrified but the rest is easy.
So, Elevator Antics seems to be the only one at this world that's impossible. I will try a little more. (Very very difficult but I rather not keep trying this anymore)

Movies (snes9x files) can be posted if there's some stage you don't understand how it's done. Just ask.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 13th, 2008, 3:38 am

Ah, cool. :)

I guess I'll have to respect the secrecy of your secret trick, but you've got me 100% intrigued...

I'm certainly looking forward to finding out.

Edit: Hey, just noticed your edit when I came back to edit in my own... edit. :P
Cool stuff with Gorilla Glacier... and Kremkroc Industries Inc. (I have to find out more about how you did Croctopus Chase.)

It's nearly 4am so I'm off to get some sleep. Best of luck with the rest of the game- feel free to start working your way through DKC2, if you still have energy left after this game... Here's a thread for reverse-navigating DKC2's levels. ;)
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Arne_the_great » March 13th, 2008, 6:31 am

*Yawn* Final update.

Believe it or not but every stage in Chimp Caverns is possible to complete in reverse except Platform perils if you don't count the token trick:

Tanked Up Trouble - I didn't expect this one to be possible but I was lucky with the jumproll trick and I managed to get to the beginning.
Manic Mincers - Wow, I might have missed something but this one was difficult. Rambi was no help because he couldn't get over a wall and I had to sacrifice Donkey once and make a leap of faith that took many many tries but I finally managed to succeed :) This was a close one
Misty Mine - Expresso makes it easy, probably possible without him. Didn't test
Loopy Lights - Easy. No comments
Platform Perils - I have no ideas to reach some platforms but it would be really difficult anyway. Possible with the token.

And yeah Qyzbud, if you really want to know jumproll you could PM and ask and I could send you a clip of how it's done, you've probably seen it before but it's just a new way of using it and I want to keep it as a suprise for the TAS community.
About Croctopus Chase... As you may have noticed if bringing a landanimal to a water stage, you can jump through walls, this is how it's done. But I found it very very hard to get anywhere and I have to use lots of savestates in an emulator. I didn't test it though but I'm very sure it's possible. *yawn*

I'll try some at DKC2 later, even though DKC2 will be much harder and requires creative ideas. The glitches in DKC2 is much more extreme and very much more difficult. But stages like Bramble Blast is actually doable in reverse, I think but it takes a lot and a lot of time to perform. Even on an emulator.

// Arne - Too much time on his hands
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 13th, 2008, 12:13 pm

Wow, you guys really went for this challenge. hey? ;)

Obviously, I'm quite impressed. I'll go through the level tally at the top of this thread and update it when I can. Of course, I'll have to PM about the jumproll not only because I'm super-curious, but also because I need to verify all of this before giving these levels the 'reverse completable' status.


Oh and Croctopus Chase:
I've noticed that that level is extremely 'picky' about camera positioning. If you don't follow the exact path you were intended to, often the camera will hold in place, and you won't see any further through the level unless you go back and 'lead' the camera towards you again. That might make this level tricky... Did you determine that it is impossible to do in reverse without the help of a land animal? The blast barrels are a bit of an obstacle, I'm sure.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Tompa » March 13th, 2008, 5:38 pm

Of course we did! :D

I'll PM you with a movie of the jumproll trick, as Arne is in school now :).

About Croctopus... Here is a video showing off some things you can do, far from all though, without getting expresso or whatever into level. As you can see the camera stops when you are able to walk/jump in the water, it could be done without the camera getting stuck. And you can easily get back to the beginning 8-) . You can pass the two first barrels without glitching, but not the other two.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 13th, 2008, 9:03 pm

That video was very weird and interesting, but nothing to do with going back through the level really. Should have been a glitch post huh? :D

You're forgiven because you are basically the reason this thread has anything going for it...
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Tompa » March 14th, 2008, 1:38 am

Well, yes it does. You can jump into the walls and make your way back to the beginning that way. Or freeze the camera and go through the barrels.
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Re: Which levels can be completed in reverse?

Postby Qyzbud » March 14th, 2008, 2:37 am

Ah, okay. I didn't notice that in the vid.
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