Factfiles (development discussion)

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Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 10th, 2008, 9:49 am

This thread is for discussing the development of DKC Atlas' Factfiles.

In short, a factfile (in the context of DKC Atlas) is a collection of short 'biographies' for things within the DKC world. I haven't yet begun to prepare these mini-bio's, but I have a pretty good idea of what to include. Take a look at the overview page to see a summary of what these bio's are likely to include. Or just open the spoiler below:

Spoiler!
Introduction to Factfiles

A factfile is a collection of short 'biographies' for things within the DKC world. Essentially, everything that DK and Diddy interact with in one way or another will be listed here with a brief description, a picture for reference, any interesting statistics, and other useful info. If relevant, there will also be tips for getting the best results when dealing with the character, object, etc.

Each 'mini-bio' will be grouped by category, the resulting group is displayed as a list of entries, and this list what is referred to here as a 'factfile'.

I've also devised a series of possible categories, which will hopefully be able to accommodate everything worthy of its own bio. These categories are also viewable from the overview page. (or by clicking the spoiler below)

Spoiler!
Kong Family
The heroes of the game, and other members of the Kong family.
Includes: DK, Diddy, Cranky, Funky and Candy.

Animal Buddies
Helpful animals which assist DK and Diddy once freed from crates.
Includes: Rambi, Enguarde, Winky, Expresso and Squawks.

Kremlings
The ruthless crocodilian race who stole DK's banana hoard.
Includes: Kritter, Klump, Krash, Klaptrap, RockKroc and Krusha.

Baddies (land)
Strangely hostile land animals of DK Island, allied with the Kremlings.
Includes: Gnawty, Necky, Army, Zinger, Slippa, Manky Kong and Mini-Necky.

Baddies (water)
The equally hostile aquatic life found in the oceans and waterways.
Includes: Bitesize, Croctopus, Chomps Jr., Chomps, Clambo and Squidge.

Bosses
Big, tough baddies who guard banana stockpiles at the end of each world.
Includes: Very Gnawty, Master Necky, Queen B., Really Gnawty, Dumb Drum, Master Necky Snr. and King K. Rool.

Items
Anything which can be collected and added to a tally.
Includes: Bananas, KONG Letters, Balloons and Golden Animal Tokens ...fuel drums?

Barrels
Barrels of all types; to be thrown, broken, triggered or launched from.
Includes: regular barrels, DK barrels, TNT drums, steel kegs, vine-bound barrels, barrel cannons, continue barrels, bonus barrels, warp barrels, 'selector' barrels, Manky barrels, stop/go barrels and on/off barrels.

Platforms etc.
Anything not mentioned above which can help the Kongs on their way.
Includes: ropes, vines, tires, platforms, mine carts, oil drums, mini dumb drums.

* I'm not sure what to name the objects shown in blue, and I'm not sure if I will include the fuel drums.

I was originally planning to have only six categories, but I figured there should be one for bosses, and the three other baddie-types should be in their own separate categories like in the game's 'cast of characters' show at the end. I think it will be neater and more logical that way, and there can be a relevant 'group description' atop each factfile.

Any thoughts on the current plan (no matter how minor it may seem), please post below.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby BlueTronic » March 10th, 2008, 10:06 am

Manky barrels are just barrels.

What are selector barrels?

stop/go barrels and on/off barrels

How 'bout "Trigger Barrels"?

Mini Dumb Drums

Black Drums!

vine-bound barrels

Vine Barrels!
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 10th, 2008, 10:14 am

References!!

But yes indeed, I'll edit those soon. :)

'Selector' barrels are the barrels in bonus rooms. You jump up and touch them to select your prize. Prize barrel, maybe...

Trigger barrels is a good suggestion, as that way it's not an entry for just a single level's unique barrels. Perhaps switch barrels would be better yet.

Thanks for the input. :D

PS. I don't think Manky barrels are just 'barrels'. I know they look that way, but regular barrels can be picked up by the Kongs, and can't hurt them. Regular barrels also don't spawn repeatedly. I'm not sure if I'll include Manky barrels... It was just a thought. There are enough barrels already, I think. ;)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby BlueTronic » March 10th, 2008, 10:27 am

References!!

tiptup jr. wrote:The official name for that barrel is Vine Barrel. I believe it says so in the GBA version's manual.

I can't prove the official name is Black Drum, but...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... tnG=Search
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 10th, 2008, 10:38 am

It looks as though 'black drum' is merely a description of Dumb Drum himself... just an adjective followed by a noun.

Perhaps I'll ask MasterDS, author of the Wiki article which showed up in that 1st search. He used capitals, so that indicates a name.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby BlueTronic » March 10th, 2008, 10:41 am

That was me that wrote that article, he kept changing my articles to aggravate me and that made it list him as the author.

Not on my watch, MasterBS!
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 10th, 2008, 11:01 am

Wait, you wrote it? Well that explains the captalisation, then... Never mind. :roll:

Also, that part you added about the DK barrel glitch really seems out of place in that article.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 10th, 2008, 9:05 pm

What do you guys think of the categories (factfile titles) listed below:

  • Kong Family
  • Animal Buddies
  • Kremlings
  • Baddies (land)
  • Baddies (water)
  • Bosses
  • Items
  • Barrels
  • Platforms etc.

Do you think things should be divided up differently or re-worded at all? I'm not sure about the land/water baddies - maybe 'Land Baddies' / 'Water Baddies', or 'Baddies in Water/on Land', 'Terranean Baddies' / 'Aquatic Baddies'... or maybe a better word exists to replace 'baddies' (enemies/bad guys). I'm just brainstorming here, feel free to jump in and do the same.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Kowbrainz » March 10th, 2008, 9:49 pm

Aquatic Attackers and Terrafirma Tough Guys... 8-)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Simion32 » March 10th, 2008, 11:14 pm

I would probably group the Barrels, Platforms, Fuel Barrels, and Item Caches into a group called Level Elements.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Tiptup Jr. » March 11th, 2008, 6:49 am

I'm working on some rough-draft factfiles for the Kongs. How long do you think they should be, Qyzbud? I was thinking roughly the size of a Smash Bros. trophy description, but I can make them longer. I'll post them (the rough drafts) eventually.

Speaking of Smash Bros., I'm getting Brawl in ten minutes, so... Don't expect me to post for awhile. :D
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 11th, 2008, 11:31 am

Kowz, I was definitely considering those as options! I think I'll save it for the DKC3 section. ;)

Simion32 wrote:I would probably group the Barrels, Platforms, Fuel Barrels, and Item Caches into a group called Level Elements.

That's not a bad idea, but the Barrels factfile is already looking to be enormous just on its own, and the Platforms etc. section has so much variety within it, it seems a bit strange to bring in other groups. Still, maybe I could have a multi-level 'tree' for organising. That way Baddies could feature all forms of opposition (no need for 4 individual groups), Level Elements could hold what you said, Items could perhaps remain the same... and maybe Heroes could include Playable Kongs, Kong Family Helpers and Animal Buddies.

That tidies things up a fair bit. Still, Level Elements would be enormous. Maybe Throwable barrels shouldn't be classed as level elements, as they can be freely moved around.

One last thought; Animal Crates should be mentioned. Probably not in the Animal Buddies section, simply because they are not Animal Buddies. Somewhere within the Level Elements main category would make sense. I think they act more like a platform type element than a barrel element. Although in theory, they are an item cache... as they hold a very useful thing inside.


Tiptup, I'm thinking we'll keep the factfiles DKC-relevant. No need for backstory, unless we have little to say about other stuff. DK, for instance... There's plenty we can say about him which is directly relevant to DKC gameplay, so we wouldn't put anything (well, maybe a little) about his history, allegiance, personality etc. Hmm, it would be good to have that stuff, but maybe we can do it as concisely as possible. For Cranky and especially the other Kong helpers, it would be good to mention those things, as there's not so much to say about their in-game actions.

The length of a smash bros description would probably be good. I'll try to whip one up for DK so you have a 'template'. Enjoy your Brawling!
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Simion32 » March 11th, 2008, 2:11 pm

Qyzbud wrote:but the Barrels factfile is already looking to be enormous just on its own, and the Platforms etc. section has so much variety within it

This layout could split up the barrels a bit, yet still allow for everything else to have a category:

Level Elements:
--Barrel Cannons
--Object Caches (this includes Item Caches and Animal Boxes)
--Miscellaneous (would include platforms and any other barrels that don't fit into the other groups, plus etc)
Baddies:
--Land Baddies
--Water Baddies
--Bosses
Items:
--Collectibles
--Throwable Barrels
Heroes

Will there be a separate factfile section for each DKC, or will they all be in the same section?
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 11th, 2008, 3:15 pm

Everything will be separate for each DKC game's section. They will basically be complete sites, in and of themselves.

I noticed that you have seemingly merged Kremlings into the Land Baddies category. I have considered that myself, and am undecided. They have very similar roles, and are generally dealt with in much the same way... Hmm, I think this could easily go either way, especially since I have K. Rool placed in the Bosses category rather than the Kremlings one already (this was another choice I didn't make lightly). In a way, I really like keeping the Kremlings distinct from the wildlife, but it really isn't necessary.

Object Caches could also cover Buried Banana Bunches or whatever we opt to refer to them as. The difference with these 'Hidden Bananas' is that there is absolutely no sprite or visual indicator of their presence. (How do you suppose Rare did that, by the way? ...a question for a different topic.)

A Miscellaneous category is something I've tried to avoid, as it gives no indication to what is contained within. However, as part of a greater category of Level Elements (or a similar name*), like you have suggested, this may be fine. This way there is less of an ambiguity problem because people will already be expecting assorted level elements (which is indeed what they will see inside).
* to me, 'level elements' logically would include stuff like baddies and barrels, too

Having barrels become items is another thing I've often considered. I wanted to have 'items' mean 'collectable objects'... but for the sake of categorising things as accurately and efficiently as possible, I'm willing to re-think this.

Excellent suggestions, Simion.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby CM August » March 11th, 2008, 6:39 pm

With regard to having land baddies and Kremlings separate... well, the games themselves make that distinction. If that's not a good enough reason, then I suppose integrating them is the way to go. For the record I like them separate too, but you know.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 11th, 2008, 8:43 pm

Well put, CM; that is certainly a good enough reason. The site is based around respecting, understanding and exploring DKC. If we can take design and content cues from within the game-world, we should. Unless of course there's a solid reason to do things differently. Besides, having land baddies and Kremlings seperate just feels right.

It's funny... There were never any aquatic Kremlings, were there? And in the whole trilogy, there was just the one aquatic boss. Hmm...

I remembered something just now; I would really like to have an information page for each of the different level archtypes. Maybe an 'Environments' factfile would be suitable, with something of a mini-bio for each type of terrain, complete with a list of the levels that are of that type. I think that would be really worthwhile.

Maybe there could be three main categories; Characters, Objects and Environments. Of course, Environments would be practically empty compared to the other two, but maybe that's okay. I guess we'll just have to see how it feels as the factfiles come together.


In other news, I've begun a draft of DK's mini-bio text:
Spoiler!
________________________________

DONKEY KONG

Weight: heavy
Agility: low/medium
Running Speed: ##
Max Jump Height: ##
Max Jump Distance: ##

Barrel holding: overhead
Signature move: Hand slap (cheers, Kowz)

The big guy himself, this great ape has power on his side. His barrel roll attack can skittle most ground-dwelling baddies, and his jump attack can overcome all but the toughest of opposition. Although not as quick or nimble as his second-in-command, DK's hands reach a little higher when he jumps, allowing him to collect some lofty items that Diddy can't get to. DK's signature move is his hand slam, which can knock the bananas out of a bad guy... Literally! It can also be used to unearth hidden banana bunches in certain areas of ground, scaffolding, and atop some palm trees. Although a capable swimmer, DK is slower and bulkier than Diddy, which can make it hard for him to avoid the hostile aquatic life.
________________________________

I want to mention an additional property of the hand slap move, although I feel it may overload the bio to add it:

The hand slap is the only melee attack which is 'collision safe'. By this I mean that even if you use it on a baddie which it cannot harm, as long as the baddie doesn't collide with DK's body itself, you will not be harmed. During this move, DK's hands are able to attack, but are impervious to counter-attack.

I guess an 'attack only' hit zone is extended in front of DK during the course of this move, but I'd have to ask cfh/Simion (our resident game design experts) if this is likely.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Kowbrainz » March 11th, 2008, 9:04 pm

Yah, Rare calls the move DK's signature hand slap... but it depends on what you want to call it I guess.

Also, would you want to add a Jump statistic for the Kongs' jump height and distance? :/
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 11th, 2008, 10:48 pm

Hand slap it is, cheers.

Oh, I forgot to do the running speed/jump height thing. That's a must- cheers again. Jump distance is a combination of jump height (or airtime, really) and running speed. I may include this too, though. It'd be good to have that, as Expresso's jump (flutter) distance is quite a different matter to just his speed/jump height.

Any other stats you think up would be good to hear. :)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Simion32 » March 11th, 2008, 11:19 pm

To Qyz:
Spoiler!
Qyzbud wrote:I guess an 'attack only' hit zone is extended in front of DK during the course of this move, but I'd have to ask cfh/Simion (our resident game design experts) if this is likely.

Maybe likely, but as of now we are not far enough in the design process to know this. As with all things, they will be revealed over time as we work on the DKCLB.
Qyz says: Okay, thanks. (I ought to have PM'ed)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 12th, 2008, 7:28 am

I think that as for enemies, either make Kremling/Nonkremling(combo of land and water) files, or all three files. You shouldn't combine the Kremlings and land sections, because than this file would dwarf the aquatic baddies in size. Plus, it doesn't make sence to combine the Land with the Kremlings, and not the Aquatic baddies. If you put land with the kremlings, than you'd also have to put aquatic baddies there too.

This is how I would do it:
Heroes-Kongs and Animal Buddies
Baddies- Kremlings, Nonkremlings, Bosses
Items- All collectable or throwable items. (oh, and animal boxes too).
Level Elements- Platforms, Vines, Barrel Cannons, and all other similar elements. (Barrel Cannons would be one section of it, and everything else would be another)
This makes 4 sections, with 9 total subsections. (2 for the first, 3 for the second, 2 for the third and 2 for the last.)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Tiptup Jr. » March 15th, 2008, 1:41 pm

I've been kicked off the television for tonight. :cry:

Qyzbud, is it okay if I put that Donkey Kong is not the original DK in his article? I think it's something that the public should know by now. But, there's also the debate as to whether Cranky is Donkey Kong's dad or grandpa. Personally, I think he's his grandpa because
Spoiler!
it says so in Brawl.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby nickp17 » March 15th, 2008, 1:47 pm

that would make sense ttj
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Kowbrainz » March 15th, 2008, 6:23 pm

Tiptup Jr. wrote:I've been kicked off the television for tonight. :cry:

Qyzbud, is it okay if I put that Donkey Kong is not the original DK in his article? I think it's something that the public should know by now. But, there's also the debate as to whether Cranky is Donkey Kong's dad or grandpa. Personally, I think he's his grandpa because
Spoiler!
it says so in Brawl.


Brawl is the same game which said Kaptain K.Rool was K.Rool's brother, so no. It'd be best for somebody to send a question into Rare and see what their original idea was, since DKC's manual makes it unclear by saying that Cranky is both Donkey's grandfather and dad at the same time, at different points in the booklet.

Cranky Kong Bio wrote:Donkey Kong's grouchy pappy is actually the original Donkey Kong...
- Cranky DK's father...

DKC Story wrote:...He groggily rolled over to see the familiar wrinkled, white-bearded, grouchy face of his old granddad "Cranky Kong" peering down at him.
...but also his grandfather?


Donkey's bio only states he is a relative of Cranky, but doesn't clear up whether he is Cranky's son or grandson. It also says nothing about DK being Donkey Kong Jr....


Also, I think on the subject of Donkey Kong, it would make more sense to only trust sources from Rare themselves, as they were the creator of the character.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby CM August » March 15th, 2008, 6:35 pm

The DK64 manual and Cranky's in-game dialogue definitively state Donkey is his son. His very first line in the game is "Well if it isn't my lazy, good-for-nothing son."

Leigh Loveday of Rare has expressed in the past that he's always thought of Donkey as Cranky's son, and the in-game grandfather comment in DKC2 is just a slip-up. That's pretty telling.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 15th, 2008, 10:09 pm

We'll go with DK being Cranky's son for the factfiles. I know there have been arguments that tilt the debate either way (courtesy of Rare and Nintendo failing to keep the story straight), but to me it's always felt right for Cranky to be DK's dad. Yeah, you can surely mention that in there, Tiptup. Perhaps you could make a fleeting mention in DK's bio, and a more thorough reference to this in Cranky's. DK's bio will already be full of statistical facts, abilities and so forth.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby CM August » March 15th, 2008, 11:50 pm

Which reminds me; will descriptions from the DKC instruction manual itself be featured on the site? Some of them are excellent reads, and contain very interesting tidbits. Cranky's profile in the manual, for instance, describes him perfectly. It would be nice if the relevant passages from DKC's manual were inluded within the factfiles in somed form.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 16th, 2008, 12:12 am

It would be nice. Perhaps I could start a 'document excerpts' or 'magazine clippings' section. Maybe even a link to any such snippets as part of each profile? Alternatively, I could just take all the best bits of the official manual bios and just rewrite them all to include the extra facts I want to stick in. I mean... it could be done.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Tiptup Jr. » March 16th, 2008, 4:17 am

To be fair, has anyone got the K. Rool trophy in the American version of Brawl? In Japan, Kaptain K. Rool is the King's brother, but the continuity is different in other parts of the world.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby cfh » March 16th, 2008, 6:15 am

Don't go by what a Smash Bros. game has... especially over an actual DK game :roll:

I think what happened is that when they were coming up with some ideas for DK's new world, they came up with the cranky old man character. Later, they came up with the idea of DK actually being the original DK Jr., making him the son of the old man character. Thinking of Cranky as "the old man character" they messed up and called him the grandfather a couple of times.

DK is Cranky's son. Simple.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 6:40 am

The grandfather mention was just saying that as the elder of the Kongs, Cranky is everyone's metaphorical grandfather. There is also a chance it was a mistake, like when they called DK Dixie's cousin.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby cfh » March 16th, 2008, 6:46 am

Exactly, he's just meant to be the elder.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Tiptup Jr. » March 16th, 2008, 10:12 am

Yes, yes, I know. But that dude told Snake that Cranky was DK's grandfather. There's no way around it. It's official now.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby CM August » March 16th, 2008, 10:24 am

This site pays attention to the DKC series, not Nintendo's inane retcons.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 10:55 am

I'm sorry Tiptup, but I fail to see your logic. Your saying that something that was said in a Nintendo cameo game makes it official? So that means that King K. Rool and Kaptain K. Rool are actually brothers, right? We don't care about anything, ANYthing that Nintendo says, especially in a cameo game. For now it's still open for discussion, until we get word from Rare, and only Rare.


Oh and I checked. The American Smash bros. does call them brothers.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby cfh » March 16th, 2008, 11:29 am

It does? That's stupid :x
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 11:31 am

Yeah, I just unlocked it today. It sucks, but I'm not surprised. They've never really care'd about details.

One question though, where does it call Cranky DK's grandfather? I never saw that in the game.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby cfh » March 16th, 2008, 11:34 am

One of Snake's codec conversations. Not reliable information, and certainly not an argument-ender :roll:
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 11:37 am

What were Snake's codec conversations? Where was that? Part of SSE? These are probably stupid questions, I just don't know what you're talking about.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby cfh » March 16th, 2008, 11:39 am

It's one of his taunts, if I recall correctly.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 11:41 am

Oh, what does if I recall correctly mean? Man I must sound really stupid right now.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby CM August » March 16th, 2008, 12:02 pm

If I Remember Correctly, if I recall correctly.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 16th, 2008, 12:03 pm

Oh, it's one of those internet abbreviations. This is off topic.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Qyzbud » March 16th, 2008, 12:41 pm

Way off-topic. I'm going to make IIRC auto-convert to its long hand version now. That will make some posts above look a little funny. ;)

Tiptup, your argument has merit, but as others have said, within the DKC scope, Rare's games have infinite authority over Nintendo's. That's my official stance.
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Tiptup Jr. » March 17th, 2008, 12:52 am

Oh, okay. Even if I'm still not convinced, I'll write in Cranky as DK's father... Eventually. ;)
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Re: Factfiles (development discussion)

Postby Jomingo » March 17th, 2008, 3:00 am

Qyzbud is right, those above posts are hilarious now.
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