Banjo is Back!

Talk about other games developed by the creators of Donkey Kong Country.

Banjo is Back!

Postby SummerSky » May 1st, 2008, 1:46 pm

I guess that would make for a cool name for the next Banjo, wouldn't it? ;)

The game's possibly going to be revealed soon, so what are you expecting, given the hints and teaser trailer and website?

I see two possible things happening:

- The game is based entirely in Spiral Mountain, with a landscape that's constantly being randomly generated as you run in every direction, and everything appears in different spots/different circumstances for each individual player. As if some storybook illustrator is doodling as you go along, bringing things to life.

- The other takes into consideration the blueprints on the teaser site. It could be that the worlds are entirely unfinished drawings (blueprints), with markings, and outlines of figures and objects drawn in various places, but with no detail within the outlines. You'd then have to assemble the worlds back together by placing jigsaw pieces in the correct locations on the blueprints. Blueprints might be drawn on the ground, and also in the vertical plane, directly facing you.

The main thing here would be choosing which pieces to put in first - putting one piece in would yield another puzzle and lead you on a different path/string of puzzles to what you'd have come upon if you'd have placed a different jigsaw piece in a different part of a blueprint.

Say, at the very start of the game, you're plonked into a blueprint-like Spiral Mountain. Wondering around, you discover four different objects/characters that you've seen an outline of in the designs on the floor or mountains. So you choose to turn one item/character into a jigsaw piece, and you shove it in your backpack and trek all the way to the outline drawing. You place it in, and something happens, leading you on a path to another puzzle. Choosing a different item to place in at the start might've lead you on an entirely different string of puzzles.

There'd be many different routes to obtaining other jigsaw pieces, but no definate route. So many ways it'd be a job and a half detailing all the methods/routes in a guide.

What does everyone else think'll happen, though?
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Qyzbud » May 1st, 2008, 2:14 pm

Your second possibility suggestion would indeed make for a game that was challenging to write a guide for... But even more of a challenge; imagine the impossibility for me to do a mapping project of your randomly generated Spiral Mountain! Oh noes! I must say it's a very intriguing idea, knowing that every playthrough of the game would be formed uniquely... They should call this 'snowflake design'. ;) Of course this way you couldn't talk online to others about your 'favourite part of the level' or that kind of thing... because there is no set 'level', and every terrain would be different for every user.

Well I for one am looking forward to Banjo's re-emergence, however the adventure unfolds.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby SummerSky » May 2nd, 2008, 1:45 am

Snowflake design, whoo! :D

I guess you could always do a mockup map, and just detail each individual part of it, and every puzzle you'd encounter. ;)

Oh, and another example of how the second one might work; you might come across a drawing of a pond of the wall, but it'd look empty. Above it would be a drawing of a raincloud. So later on, you might find a raincloud floating elsewhere in the area, so you blast it with your wand to turn it into a jigsaw piece (it gets a nice raincloud picture on it!), and you place it in the raincloud image. The raincloud then appears over the drawing of the pond, drenches it with water, and hey presto, the drawing of the pond comes to life and fills up with water!

Then Tiptup could pop his head out of the water!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby RawkHawk2010 » May 6th, 2008, 2:30 pm

Only seven more days before the big reveal...

...the wait is killing me!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kiddy14 » May 10th, 2008, 10:04 am

Hey, the Rare scribes posted some really good sneak previews for Banjo! Check them out! Spoilers for those who want to see the game for themselves ;)

Spoiler!
Image
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby SummerSky » May 10th, 2008, 10:51 am

Lookin' nice. Really nice graphical style they've gone for; I knew it'd look nice, but not that nice. I can't quite put my finger on what it reminds me of.

Ah! Microsoft Paint!

Only seven more days before the big reveal...

...the wait is killing me!


Me too, dude. I was expecting to see this game at E3 2003 - I remember coming home from work and seeing Grabbed by the Ghoulies instead. :cry:

I just want to see what it is we've been speculating over all this time. I don't think I've ever wanted to see a game as much as I do this one. :D
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 10th, 2008, 1:30 pm

There is a rumor that Rare is developing a WiiMote type controller for the 360, and that Banjo is going to be the first to use it. I hope this is true, and the rumor is that they are unveiling it on Tuesday!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 12th, 2008, 1:41 am

No, Banjo is not using some weird remote, and he is not being ported to PC either.

Anyway... ahem. I bring you, BK3:

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9431 ... hy6nk2.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8319 ... fc8bi0.jpg
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 12th, 2008, 4:21 am

THIS GAME WILL OWN ALL OF YOU.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby cfh » May 12th, 2008, 9:09 am

The graphics are... meh.

And it's a little worrying that Banjo is in some weird machine in both shots...
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 12th, 2008, 9:30 am

Kowz, how can you say that? There has been no proof or mention that he isn't, so there really is no way of knowing, and yet you act like it's not possible. They haven't said anything about it, and pretty much every video game news site has reported about the rumor.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 12th, 2008, 3:51 pm

Lol... >.>

Rare's already stated that the game is not being ported to the PC just like the other Banjo games weren't because Banjo generally doesn't play well on a computer using the controls it currently has.

Look, yes, there was a rumour about a wiimote controller, but any statements about Banjo using it are purely speculation and guessmaking. You're acting like just because there isn't proof that it isn't true, that it therefore must be either true or have a large chance of happening.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 12th, 2008, 7:03 pm

Banjo looks hideous. I'm sorry, but he does. I can't believe Rare screwed with his design that badly - apparently for the sake of being less kiddy and cutesy, whatever THAT means.

I loved the Banjo games. The exquisite visual style had a lot to do with that, which I believe is an inseperable part of Banjo; much like Donkey Kong with its beautifully lush, realistic enviroments. And all that was scrapped to make room for THIS abomination. It's as offensive as Nintendo's little 'design tweaks' to the Donkey Kong series. I detest it.

But hey, at least the screenshots look interesting and quirky (which is not the same as 'charming').
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 12th, 2008, 7:18 pm

Lol, he looked worse in the trailer. Kazooie looks better now, too. You're about a year and a half late for complaining about the looks. :P

More screenshots: http://www.spiralmountain.co.uk/site_sc ... s.asp?id=5

Some gameart: http://www.spiralmountain.co.uk/site_gameart.asp?id=5
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 12th, 2008, 9:01 pm

You're about a year and a half late for complaining about the looks. :P

Of course, it's not news. That's simply the reason the game's development doesn't captivate me, something I never mentioned here or elsewhere.

Looking at these new screenshots, it might deliver in other areas such as gameplay and maybe even story. Unfortunately, that sort of thing is really only apparent after actually playing through the game.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 12th, 2008, 9:08 pm

Eh, the graphics don't really please me as much as the classic Banjo did either, but I'm pretty excited to play it either way.

I just read up on the Kotaku story you were referring to, Jomingo... seems pretty weird, dunno how you could hope for it being true. I don't get why, if this was the case, that the game wouldn't be able to work for the PC... but I'll wait and see. Why they'd want to use a remote for the game is beyond me...
Lol, sorry about the crabbiness... it's just I love my Banjo and tend to get a little uptight when people say stuff without valid (or any) sources.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 13th, 2008, 6:14 am

Yeah, I never said that it was true, I said it was a rumor, and that I hope it was true. That's okay, no need to apologize.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 13th, 2008, 7:29 pm

Apparently the name is finalised now; Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts if you hadn't realised already.


Gameinformer says:
- RARE says they didn't want to make a hi res version of the old Banjo platformer.
- You create vehicles with parts you find around the levels.
- GI says their first vehicles was a 4 wheeled kart with a spring attached to the bottom that allowed them to jump things. They later found a helicopter blade that allowed their kart to fly. Later they added balloons to the vehicle and put the blade on the back and created a hovercraft.
- RARE showed them a vehicle that was a monster truck that was able to detach its chasis to become a mini bike. When the bike ramped off a cliff it revealed collapsible glider wings and started flying.
- There will be 1,600 parts including weapons that you'll be able to attach to the vehicles.
- The town is called Showdown Town.
- GI says that despite the large focus on vehicles it still features platform elements from the previous games like traditional platforming, tight rope walking and jiggy piece collecting.
- Showdown Town is 16 times larger than anything RARE has created before.
- Every level has a different intro. Nutty Acres begins with a credits spoof of 80's soap opera's like Dallas.
- Note collecting is back and will act has currency that'll allow you to bu vehicle blueprints.
- RARE says there are 15 different challenges spread across 6 different levels. There will also be side missions.

NeoVsDK says (this is from testing the game after a tour to Rare if I recall correctly)
Banjo (slated for November):
- Building vehicles is basically like playing with LEGO. You can always jump in and out of the vehicle editor and come right back to the game with the new design.
- Parts are easily placed and moved around. You don't have to worry about connecting the motor with the wheels for example. Just place everything so they stick together and don't get in the way.
- Vehicle designs can play a large role in missions. We saw one where you had to collect coconuts from a field and got a small truck that could suck them up. Unfortunately you couldn't fit all the coconuts in the truck and had to back and deliver them in a large barrel. We were then shown how you could create a helicopter with a hook, that could pick up this large barrel, fly to the coconut field and fly low to scoop the coconuts in the barrel.
- Physics are awesome in this game and everywhere! With one design I placed the foot-in-a-box weapon behind a propeller, and when I tried to use it, the foot/boot couldn't get past the propeller... well, until I used it enough times to actually kick the propeller off the vehicle!
- Pixel art... imagine the possibilities (Rare already had an example of this, paying homage to a certain plumber)
- Multiplayer is great fun with the ability to either chose from pre-fabricated or own vehicle designs. It still needs some polish here and there, but showed great promise.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 14th, 2008, 11:43 am

I've been blown away by all the amazing things I've seen today... I don't care what anyone else says, this game is gonna own. Hard.

And I must say...

Spoiler!
Image

Humba Wumba's redesign is hot!

...What? :?
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 14th, 2008, 9:05 pm

She's very Kameo-esque... :P

Lol, you have no idea how hard it is to keep a site up-to-date with all the new info as it flies in, another review, trailer or batch of screenshots in every few minutes. Especially with the server lag with all the visitors.

Eh, I'm impressed, really. Sure, a platformer like the previous two games would be nice, but I think the innovation was a great decision on Rare's part to keep the game fresh and something that the gamer community hadn't seen before. Another platformer would have been forgotten by most in the same way DKC3 was, but even more so seeing as the age of 3D platformers being new and innovative stuff has long passed.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 14th, 2008, 9:54 pm

DKC3's reception was diminished because everyone's attention was on the just-released Nintendo 64 and its flagship Mario title. It's a completely different scenario.

And it should be noted that Super Mario Galaxy managed to innovate in a big way, without completely retooling the Mario world or its classic gameplay formula - in fact, it brought Mario closer to his pure platforming roots. There is no justification for this, none.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Qyzbud » May 14th, 2008, 10:47 pm

Interesting point. I'm tending to agree with you, CM... and I hope the drastic nature of the conceptual redesign doesn't make it too weird for classic Banjo fans. I'm eager to see what it's really like, but I must say I'm a little uneasy about the general premise of the vehicular emphasis in B-K:N&B.

Er, maybe calling it BK3 would be simpler... :P
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 14th, 2008, 11:28 pm

Classic Banjo fans are embracing it for the most part; it's only about 5% or less who aren't liking it too much. Whereas if you go to the gameFAQs boards you'll just find people trolling on about how it's not banjo, how it's ruined their nostalgia, how it's going to fail, how it's stupid that it's a racing game (lol) etc etc etc.

Look, I would have loved a traditional platformer, but there would be nothing new about it, and everything used in the game would have been done several times before by others. The N64 platformers were the best since everything was brand new and different, whereas the ones you see popping up occasionally on the xbox or wii or whatever are just the same old, tired ideas used again; you need an idea, an innovation like Super Mario Galaxy had if you're going to actually get anywhere with things.

Lol, I realise there's nothing I can do to persuade you in anyway until you play the game or something like that; similarly there'd be no point in me taking a lengthy rant to gameFAQs. Yes, the game is different, but just think about the game for a second without the whole Banjo mask over it. I'm not saying that Rare should have made the game into a new franchise and left Banjo as he was, I'm just saying you can't treat it like a direct sequel.

Eh... just wait until you play it first, I guess. I'm not saying you have to go psycho about it or anything, just hold your judgements and don't turn into one of those gameFAGs who wrongly judges a game he knows barely anything about and hasn't experienced yet.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 14th, 2008, 11:51 pm

Kowbrainz, you might be taking this a little too personally. There's no need to warn me of becoming a "GameFAG" naysayer when the criticism is targeted towards the facts we know about the game.
In simplest terms: some tolerate or even embrace the changing of fundamental aspects in a much-loved series, others don't. People from both sides may change their mind over time, no doubt about it; the point is that these issues do not stem from rumors and heresay, but from what Rare has outright stated in no uncertain terms.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 15th, 2008, 5:50 am

But that's the thing: They're not "changing the fundamental aspect" of it; we've already seen numerous plarforming segments in the game. It appears the vehicles will be a big aspect of the game, yes, but how does that ruin anything? The ability to build, customize, and actually use your own creations in addition to a solid Banjo platformer should not be complained about by anyone.

And the character redesigns are cool too.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 15th, 2008, 6:34 am

But they are taking a severe amount of attention away from the minimal platforming that will be involved. Not only this, but from what I've heard Kazooie is not going to have any abilities at all! She is going to be completely useless.

I don't agree with Kowbrainz, though I can see where your coming from. You're right, we haven't seen very many good platformers that add anything new, but do you really have that little amount of faith in Rare's ability to innovate? If they can come up with this vehicle concept, I'm sure they could have come up with some fantastic innovating platforming. This is Rare we are talking about, have they ever just done the same old thing?

The more and more I see of this game, the more I wish it were a new property. Why couldn't they have made it a new series, or a spinoff or something? This isn't the BK3 we've been waiting for like 10 years for. Instead, we get Nuts and Bolts. I have no doubt that this game will be amazing, but this isn't Banjo. They should've made it Bumper Nuts and Bolts. That would be amazing, but this, not so much.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby cfh » May 15th, 2008, 7:15 am

This is a good spin-off game, but not Banjo-Kazooie 3. Rare doesn't want to make Banjo-Kazooie 3.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 15th, 2008, 7:35 am

I completely agree with you. They admitted that this wasn't originally going to be BK3, it was a completely different game that they decided to turn into a Banjo game. It seems like they just wanted to get all the impatiant fans off of there backs so they could move on to other projects.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 15th, 2008, 10:35 am

Ugh, this is frustrating. Instead of trying to convince you all that Nuts and Bolts isn't a bad game, I'll just sit here and angrily shake my fist at you.

...Negative Nancies! :evil:
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 15th, 2008, 11:17 am

I never said that it was a bad game per say, but you can't say that this is a Banjo game. Come on, your not a little dissapointed too?
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 15th, 2008, 7:30 pm

I wouldn't say disappointed yet. I know I can't call this a true sequel to the previous two games (at least, not yet) but it is certainly interesting to see what's going on... can't wait to try it out.

Yeah, the only real question you can pose is as to why they decided to go this direction with Banjo and not a new IP. I guess that the only real new way they could go with Banjo would be to combine moves in this way; but they decided the way that they'd be able to combine techniques was through vehicles. If you think about it there aren't a whole lot of other ways you can branch out with the platforming genre... we've seen the basics, advanced physics like gravity but I really don't know what else would be possible to do right now. Yeah, Rare's innovative, but what would they have thought up other than this? I don't just mean different art styles or game appearances (ie make the game like a pop up book or something, although that's not innovative) - something truly different which hasn't been done before and will shape the way you play the game. BK was the same as Mario 64, as was DK 64; there was no innovation to discern the two. Mario Galaxy broke away by using advanced physics like multiple gravity sources etc. But what else would you have done?

Yeah, at the end of the day, a new BK platformer would have been nice, but at the same time (yeah, dkc3 was probably a bad example) would it have been looked up to as much as the previous two games? It may have been bigger or more graphically advanced, but I don't think it would have been remembered for much more than finally bringing the characters back to life... :/
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby cfh » May 16th, 2008, 6:36 am

...which is why they don't want to make Banjo-Kazooie 3. I respect that. But it's a little disappointing.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 16th, 2008, 6:40 am

I find your lack of faith disturbing Kowbrainz. I have no doubt in my mind that Rare could've made an amazing and memorable platformer. The thing is, they are probably bored of making platformers. That could be why they took this direction, they just didn't feel like making BK3.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 16th, 2008, 4:44 pm

Jomingo wrote:I find your lack of faith disturbing Kowbrainz. I have no doubt in my mind that Rare could've made an amazing and memorable platformer. The thing is, they are probably bored of making platformers. That could be why they took this direction, they just didn't feel like making BK3.


Lol, don't give me any 'lack of faith' crap; you have no idea how big of a Banjo fan I am - there are a lot of problems with creating a platforming sequel that you don't seem to realise. I was hoping for a full sequel as well, but you have to realise the problems with making a game like that when we're seven, eight years down the track. If Rare were to create a simple sequel, the only audience it would attract would be the fans of the original. It would be purely for fan service, which, although it is mighty nice, isn't going to do them any good. The other problem is of course the one I have already stated, that the game would be good for the first few months as we experience the game fresh and new, but it would have no lasting factor like the other two games did.

Innovation is something that a lot of people don't seem to be able to grasp these days in respect to games. Gaming may be relatively new, however it has grown so much lately that 'innovation' is something extremely hard to come by unless you want to create something not-so-traditional or way out there, such as Guitar Hero, Beautiful Katimari etc. Companies have branched out the concepts of their games so far now that it's becoming increasingly hard to find an idea that hasn't been done before and that actually works instead of simply looking good on paper. It's not a matter of me not trusting Rare to be able to come up with something, it's just if they had done something other than what they're doing now, it would have either been so far out there that it would have made this game look directly related to the others (Banjo Hero, anyone?) or it would have borrowed too many ideas from the previous titles that it was just the same old stuff that the main market grew tired of years ago.

You have to start looking at this from Rare's perspective in terms of marketing. Pure fanservice isn't going to do them any good. To an extent, yes they were 'bored' of making platformers, but even if they were able to make a traditional platformer game there would have to be something there to make it different from the platformers around it and from the games that many years ago for it to sell. BK and BT were in a different situation back then - they were the forefront and pinnacle of platforming at the time, they had the best graphics you would see anywhere on a console, and they were right up there with SM64 and other hits of that age in terms of gameplay. The ideas within them were relatively new at the time, so it was easy for players to embrace them. A decade on, and these same ideas which were pioneered by BK and BT back then have been repeatedly shoved out to the market time and time again by new platformers, their developers slightly mixing up the ideas and designs to make their games different. Over time developers have exhausted practically all ideas, and even though I have strong faith that Rare would have made these ideas bigger and/or better, it wouldn't have been much to please newer gamers who hadn't heard of Banjo - it would just look like the same thing. It's a bit like Pokemon and other games with multiple sequels and new editions; I'd like to think I'm buying the games because they're branching out into new areas and unexplored territories, rather than trying to simply be bigger and better than before by adding more and more monsters.

I know full well that Rare would be able to make a new Banjo game with the same elements as the other games, but the problem that idea poses is that it does nothing for Rare if they want to move forward and continue to create new things which haven't been done before.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 16th, 2008, 5:20 pm

As Jomingo said before, you've made your point clear. I just completely disagree with it, for reasons that have been stated here and elsewhere. Really, it seems there's little left to discuss about the matter.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 17th, 2008, 7:17 am

What if Rare would've kept the same gameplay mechanics, but tacked on some sort of gimmick like Mario Galaxy. I wouldn't mind somesort of gimmick as long as it still felt like Banjo. I'm sure Rare could've come up with something that could please old fans and new ones alike.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 17th, 2008, 12:33 pm

I think they may have already done that; apparently the game went through three cycles of development - the BK you see now is the result of two ideas being scrapped. I believe one of the first two was to combine past levels from BK and BT into some sort of new world in a platforming style, but it didn't work out for whatever reason. :/
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 22nd, 2008, 7:14 am

I WON THE SECRET SCRIBES CONTEST!!!

Spoiler!
The prize was a gloriously-made wallpaper depicting heads of various characters, including some secret ones. I'm not going to tell you guys who though... If you really want to know, I'm sure it's somewhere else on the internet. But this is one turtle who keeps his word.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 22nd, 2008, 7:30 am

Spoiler!
1) I didn't know there was a contest.
2) Did they tell you not to tell anyone? If so, I can respect that. Just a man trying to keep his commitment. If not, then tell me NOW!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 22nd, 2008, 7:58 am

Spoiler!
1) Yeah. In the latest edition of Scribes Leigh Loveday said that anyone who e-mailed them by May 12th with the correct N&B storyline would win a purdy prize. AND I DID.

2) Technically, he didn't tell me not to tell anyone, but he heavily implied it. I'm sorry... I just wouldn't feel right if I did. Check the DKU's forum topic on Nuts & Bolts. Someone probably posted it there.


And Humba Wumba is still a sexy little... Erm, nevermind.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 22nd, 2008, 7:48 pm

It's like Humba's gone from Native American tribal shaman to Native American yuppie. Much like Mumbo's transition from witch doctor to grease monkey. Just another example of this game sucking every ounce of mystique out of the series. Every gorgeous enviroment is entirely artificial, with the only sense of reality residing in a cramped bustling town. Apparently even the pristine Spiral Mountain is in shambles now, simply because Banjo didn't maintain it.
That's a harsh departure from playful, magic fairytale worlds, supremely harsh.

But on the plus side, it has blocks. Woo!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Kowbrainz » May 22nd, 2008, 8:12 pm

Tiptup Jr. wrote:I WON THE SECRET SCRIBES CONTEST!!!

Spoiler!
The prize was a gloriously-made wallpaper depicting heads of various characters, including some secret ones. I'm not going to tell you guys who though... If you really want to know, I'm sure it's somewhere else on the internet. But this is one turtle who keeps his word.


Lol, I "won" too, but Leigh wrote out a special edition of the email just for me:

You're not wrong, guv. (Even if you did enter at least twice, spirit of Xmas and all that, never mind that it’s May.) Rumour 4 it was, and here's your ingenious postage-eliminating digital prize: a big slice of Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts character wallpaper, exclusive (until someone goes and sticks it on a forum) to you and the 30 or so other contest winners. Enjoy!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby SummerSky » May 23rd, 2008, 1:42 am

People are so divided over this game, but I love what Rare's doing with Banjo!

Banjo and Kazooie might not operate as that same indestructable unit they were in both N64 Banjo games, but their abilities have now been stuffed into these vehicles, so I'm still happy. And there's raised platforms dotted around Nutty Acres, so it still seems there's platforming in there. Depends how strict you are in your definition of a platformer, I guess.

Banjo looks hideous. I'm sorry, but he does. I can't believe Rare screwed with his design that badly - apparently for the sake of being less kiddy and cutesy, whatever THAT means.


I used to dislike the old trailer redesign, but I really like the Nuts and Bolts in game model. All the machines you build are very angular; I think placing the old Banjo design in them might've looked odd. This looks great; fits it really well. And to boot, it does really look like a more chunky version of the old in-game N64 Banjo.

They've done an excellent job on the visual appearance of the vehicles, too. Very, very distinctive; just as you can recognise a Lego block, you can easily pinpoint the style of the parts of Banjo's vehicles. :)

An engineer from Rare has even put together somebody's vehicle design, and took a screenshot! See: http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1660. Proper good!
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 23rd, 2008, 5:58 am

Not that I'm knocking the building mechanic, oh no. It's the most critically important aspect of the game to get right. So important, in fact, that everything else about Banjo must be compromised to accomodate it.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 23rd, 2008, 6:02 am

I feel as if Rare was trying so hard to come up with something innovative and unique, and something that might please the 360 crowd, that they didn't really put much thought into the fact that it's a Banjo game. This could easily have sold as well under a different name, why slap Banjo on it? I still am unsure wether or not I like this game.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby SummerSky » May 23rd, 2008, 11:42 am

Whether you like Nuts and Bolts or not, I'd like to think of this as a new lease of life for Banjo. If they'd have bolted ( ;) ) a gimmick onto a 10 year old formula, chances are it still would have felt dated, and a been-there-done-that affair. How many times have you seen people complaining about new iterations of games this generation that, given the more powerful hardware, still played like a PlayStation 2 game? I've read similar complaints about Kameo; that Rare were 'still stuck in the 90's', unable to create anything new themselves, and having to follow Nintendo's lead to ensure their own success.

If you want to look at a game with a gimmick placed into an existing formula, look no further than Mario Sunshine. It worked for one game, sure, but FLUDD's not been seen since. Nintendo had to go back to the drawing board and design something that'd totally change the dynamics of the platforming. Planets and gravitational puzzles? Who would've thought that'd work in a Mario game? But it did, and the game stands as a distinct and different Mario platformer, because it built on its own new foundations; that of ball-shaped levels and gravitational pulls. And that also sets itself up well for a direct sequel, because they've got a whole new type of platforming to build upon further.

It honestly looks like they're doing the same with Banjo. And the best thing is, they've got a whole new formula to build and improve upon in the future, rather than a formula that's tired and old. So it can only be good in the long run. Especially for us, because we're the fans. I don't want to see the Banjo series die; if it takes a whole new concept to keep it going, then that's how I'd want it. :D
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 23rd, 2008, 11:48 am

...You just, like, took those words out of my mind and placed them on the forums. How dare you. ;)

But yeah, the man's right. This isn't a "BANJO-DESTROYING GIMMICK OMFGWTFASDFALSDKFJ" kind of thing, it's just... cool. You know, if you've seen the trailers and gameplay videos and still think that Nuts and Bolts sucks, you're beyond help. It looks like (and I can't say this for sure, as I haven't played it) it could be one of the greatest video games ever produced by mankind. The vehicles are awesome, and HUMBA IS HOT. There is no reason not to like this game. At all.

Grrrr.
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Jomingo » May 23rd, 2008, 11:54 am

Hahaha, can you get off of Humba for 10 seconds? :lol:
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby Tiptup Jr. » May 23rd, 2008, 11:58 am

Heh... No. 8-)
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Re: Banjo is Back!

Postby CM August » May 23rd, 2008, 5:33 pm

SummerSky wrote:Planets and gravitational puzzles? Who would've thought that'd work in a Mario game? But it did, and the game stands as a distinct and different Mario platformer, because it built on its own new foundations; that of ball-shaped levels and gravitational pulls. And that also sets itself up well for a direct sequel, because they've got a whole new type of platforming to build upon further.

It honestly looks like they're doing the same with Banjo.

Except you ignored a glaringly obvious point. Super Mario Galaxy innovated, but it also stuck to its roots. In fact, it's the closest 3D platformer to his original outings. Banjo on the other hand has gone on a completely different tangent, ignoring or rewriting virtually everything it stood for. It's basically a vehicle brawler with some platforming tacked to the side. And without Kazooie's moves, it's doubtul the platforming will be nearly as much fun.

There are crucial, identifying elements to a series besides the almighty innovation. Mario Galaxy understood this. The Banjo development team doesn't. Comparing the two is just ridiculous.
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