DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project PHASE ONE COMPLETE

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » August 29th, 2014, 7:14 pm

I think the newest bird shot is too much erratic movement. Personally, I prefer the old one.

Also, I would not show the banana trail just yet. Funky points it out further on in the trees after the banana hoard scene.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » August 31st, 2014, 3:23 pm

Qyzbud wrote:Personally, I think the fern texture helps. It mightn't be a big transformation, but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I can't help but think a little bit of bump mapping could make the shapes it's composed of look a bit more organic, but if you wish to leave it as it is and move on, I can accept that. :)

I think I agree with most of your own recent bird critiques; too many, too brown... too fast? I'm not sure, but I think they might be moving a bit fast — especially considering that they are flying upwards, and not flapping. Personally, I would recommend a few Squawks-esque bright colours for the birds; not that they have to look like Squawks, exactly, but having vivid colour would be nice, I think.


There is a bump map on the ferns. Too much and the leaves look rough.
I bade the birds blue, yellow, and green now. And DK runs 22% faster(not a re-render).




The question I have... Is the pacing of the scene as a whole ok or are some shots too long too short, or too quick?

Thanks.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » August 31st, 2014, 4:05 pm

I don't know that rough-looking leaves would be such a bad thing, but that's okay.

I'm not sure about the birds... having each one be a solid colour looks a bit odd. Honest question; do you have an aversion to the colour red, or are you just reserving it for DK's tie? I really feel as though the red jungle leaves would help the whole scene look better and more balanced. Some red on the birds (the green ones in particular) could really help, too.

With regard to the birds and their movement; I think it would look better if there was a bit more of a unified movement out from under the jungle canopy, and then for them to scatter outwards away from the source of the ferocious noise (DK).

Oh, and DK's movement speed looks around 22% better now. :lol: I still get the feeling that everything is just a bit slow and stilted (static pauses, for example — especially when DK lands). Are you planning to add more character/camera animations/movements at these parts, to keep things looking fluid and alive?

These are my thoughts! Hopefully they help. :geek:
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 1st, 2014, 5:01 pm

Qyzbud wrote:Oh, and DK's movement speed looks around 22% better now. :lol: I still get the feeling that everything is just a bit slow and stilted (static pauses, for example — especially when DK lands). Are you planning to add more character/camera animations/movements at these parts, to keep things looking fluid and alive?


I was going to leave it as is. However what do you suggest for camera movements. I already have the camera move in most of the shots. There is only one pause and that is when DK lands. I can get rid of the pause when DK lands. Would that be passable for the scene?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 5th, 2014, 11:41 am

Qyzbud I made the leaves more red now. ;)

ExitingHouseAndEnteringHoard5.png


Below is a near final version of the this particular scene with a few critiques taken into account. Still needs work but I'm satisfied with it so far and ready to work on something else.



I'm looking for any/all critiques you guys may have. I will make a checklist and take them into account for the final version.

Thanks!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Jeeves » September 5th, 2014, 11:58 am

Looking good, Cyclone! The leaves are nearly perfect at this point, and Donkey's movements seem vastly improved. I look forward to seeing more. Keep up the amazing work!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » September 5th, 2014, 2:35 pm

That's looking really good man. I'm not sure if you already have this in your checklists on page 1, but I would reduce the camera shaking a bit when DK lands. Other than that, I can't really think of anything else.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » September 5th, 2014, 3:35 pm

I'm with Sono and Jeeves on the "looking good" front; these are definitely some solid colour and movement improvements!

The leaves look a lot better with some red to them, and I could certainly accept them as they are, but I hopped into Photoshop to see if I could tweak the colour a little more.

Here's a subtle variation on the scene's colours and contrast:
Spoiler!
Jungle scene colour tweaks2.jpg

Basically, I made the red leaves a little more red/magenta (increased their saturation a touch, shifted the hue a bit towards 'magenta', reduced lightness a bit), added a small amount of overall contrast to the scene, and I had a go at giving the ferns a darker green — although I couldn't seem to do them justice with my rushed editing techniques. I thought it might be nice to give them a darker colour — more in keeping with the official renders; perhaps you could see how you go with that idea?


Whether you take or leave any of these suggestions, I really like what you've come up with. Great work! :D
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 6th, 2014, 6:06 pm

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions!

I updated this particular shot. Trying to match the lighting with the other shots.

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » September 6th, 2014, 7:42 pm

Apart from the colour of those "red" leaves (seriously... you're messing with me, aren't you?!), and a few other minor factors, this is looking awesome.

Here are the minor issues I noticed:
  • The shadow beneath the nearest palm (the Gnawty walks across it) is very pixely looking.
  • There are slight flickers in the shadows on some of the palm leaves
  • I like that you've got the "D.K." sign swinging, but the movement isn't very realistic.
  • The leaves on the hillside (far left) look like they are hovering, unattached to the hill.
  • Dem "red" leaves; you seem to have gone towards a light orange(?!?!) just to drive me crazy.

Despite these little nit-picks, I'm really impressed with what you've done here. :banana:
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 7th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Sorry about the Qyzbud. Every time when I change the lights around it affects the brightness of the leaves. I tried to compensate in the render below. The leaves on the hill no langer look like their floating on some of the leaves.

Also Gnawty now has fur.

DKHouseZoomingIn(Adjustments)(Sep6th).png

Gnawty(with fur)(sep6th).png
Gnawty(with fur)(sep6th).png (435.9 KiB) Viewed 42218 times
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 9th, 2014, 5:00 pm

Fixed some stuff in this shot. Gnawty now has fur which has been improved along with the shadows and the sign, and red leaves. This video is half hd and then upscale. You may notice some lines and a flicker. That is an easy fix and will be corrected.



What do you guys think?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 12th, 2014, 8:36 am

Here is a shot of a Gnawty squeaking in fear while he runs into the cave. This shot has sound.

I tried to make his fur looks wet and unintentionally matted.

I thought it turned out decent.

It may look too dark so view 1080 in full screen


Any thoughts?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Jeeves » September 12th, 2014, 2:47 pm

Your Gnawty is looking nice! I think you've done a good job of making it look like he's gone through the rain.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » September 12th, 2014, 9:16 pm

I like these recent animations, Cyclone. :)

The sign's movement looks a lot better now, but I think perhaps the rays of light are a bit more opaque than they ought to be; perhaps try halving their opacity?

The Gnawty's new, furry look is kind of cool, although I think he'd look his best with a fairly sleek coat. Your most recent efforts are an improvement over the earlier render, which looked just a little too scruffy in my opinion.

The animation of the Gnawty entering the banana cave has a nice stormy atmosphere — good stuff! The rain splashes are a nice touch, but I think they'd look a whole lot better if the droplets were gravity-affected, rather than just travelling in straight lines.

Keep it up, it's coming together nicely!

:nicework:
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Tonberry2000 » September 13th, 2014, 12:31 am

I think Gnawty looks a bit too fuzzy. The model is great though.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 18th, 2014, 1:01 pm

Urgent feedback needed. :P

I lost parts of this scene due to deleted files so I had to redo it with what I had. Low fur count and draft renders to speed up rendering and work flow.

The first wide shot showing both DK + Cranky I worked on today. I tried to add subtle movements to the characters and added some sound effects. Slippa is in the scene as well. I will keep the first shot as it is but plan on making the scene less hazy and more contrasty.



If anyone is up to it I need feedback regarding character movements. Please and thank you :thumbs:
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » September 18th, 2014, 1:47 pm

The idle movements are looking pretty good. Maybe have the characters glance around every now and then, too.

As for feedback/suggestions:
- Change DK's cry to the one when DK takes a hit from an enemy in the Retro games, or else the sound you used here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOpVTXWfGBw
- The split-second close-up shot of him should be removed.
- Dk moving his head in his hands looks very awkward and weird. Instead of rotating the head randomly about its origin, rotate it only about its local vertical axis.
- Some spelling mistakes in the subtitles. There are also parts of the dialogue missing.
- DK's angry face looks weird. Close his mouth a bit.
- On that note, don't have DK repeating expressions. When he says, "Oh no, this is a disaster!", have him looking shocked at the news.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby vege » September 19th, 2014, 4:48 am

Hi, i am new in this forum.

@Cyclone: you've done a great job, some suggestions;

First off, i like the worm at the background, maybe some cobwebs could help in its appearance.

Secondly, when Cranky is standing, his legs should be more static (vertically), so he looks like he's breathing, the same for donkey kong.
his hand could be different, it looks a bit unnatural. it seems little tense when it is compared with his arm.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby spaceman2028 » September 19th, 2014, 6:44 am

Welcome to the forums, vege. Be sure to read the rules for posting,

I'm pretty sure the worm is actually the slippa cyclone was referring to, but yeah the video is alright. Like how the very first part is almost relevant to the original DKC exactly.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby vege » September 19th, 2014, 11:55 am

@spaceman2028: Thanks , i read the rules but I am doubtful about how to posting pictures, models, etc, so I'll try to find that information at the FAQ. viewtopic.php?f=18&t=177#p3031

And, yes, he is Slippa, i like its incorporation into the scene, i think it requires a lot of work to make this sequence (planning, to make models, to add textures, sounds, effects, movements).

@cyclone: How much time is required to render this animation?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 22nd, 2014, 4:47 am

^ I like your balloon model. The only critique since you asked is the colour overall makes i look kinda ghostly. But the shape is good. :thumbs: Oh and a lot of time is required to render the shots. The draft renders go by very quick though. The non draft renders range in time from 4 hours to 8 hours and that is not even including increasing the hair count on the characters.

I made a bunch of changes to the draft render.
Overall I think it is an improvement.

Do you guys have any other suggestions before I render it it in non draft? It won't be the final render just the basic.



Thanks again for your invaluable feedback.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 22nd, 2014, 5:01 pm

Here is the rain shot with more realistic rain. There will be moving foliage in a later update.

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Tonberry2000 » September 23rd, 2014, 1:58 am

Maybe try modeling Cranky's beard as one solid thing with a hair texture? That might make him look more like Cranky.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 23rd, 2014, 6:12 am

^ Keep in mind that is only a viewport/preview render. His beard looks much better in final renders.

No other comments on cave scene or the shot with the rain? :(
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby spaceman2028 » September 23rd, 2014, 7:00 am

vege wrote:And, yes, he is Slippa.


Then why did you call a snake a worm?

Anyways the scene looks good so far. Keep it up!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby vege » September 23rd, 2014, 9:47 am

@cyclone you're welcome, and thanks back for your opinion, i will change the transparence of the balloon.

@spaceman2028 @cyclone honestly, when I saw the video, the snake looked like worm :oops: , maybe Slippa could have less reflection (or brightness) and other textures I thought.

About Video number 1: 0:04 seconds->
1- Donkey Kong shouts synchronously with the audio.
Then, at 0:05 his mouth is out of sync with audio (it is closed during the second exclamation).

0:27: Donkey Kong moves his right forearm in horizontal direction, it would look better if it is static for me.

-----------

2. If it is possible, to raising vertically the ground in this area (number 2 at the picture).
3- There is discontinuity between the bodies and its visible shadow on the ground (see number 3), probably Cranky is not touching the ground, please check that.
4- I suggest you to rotate the fingers (or left foot) of Cranky through the Y axis (vertical) (see number 4 at the pic).

Everything else looks perfect, I like the beard of Cranky and the winks of each character.

----------------------------------------------------------------

About video number 2:

Great scene, only if you want to make it look a bit more realistic, you could have trees with different brightness (dark green, light green, etc).
It is cool the rebound effect of the rain hitting the house.
Attachments
changes.jpg
the arrow indicates the possible change.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 23rd, 2014, 3:30 pm

Thanks for the comments. I will work on them when I get the chance.

Here is the rain scene again with moving trees. I also increased the brightness so it's not so dark.



I'm keeping the trees the same colour to match the the ingame artwork.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby vege » September 23rd, 2014, 3:53 pm

Hi Cyclone, yes, i know, the original artwork is a bit abstract in that sense, it looks good anyway, nice change.

I am loving the movements of the trees under the rain.

----------------
Cyclone, In the movie number 1 another snake appears at 0:34 but i feel that Slippa disappears very fast.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 28th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Vege I implemented most of your suggestions. And made changes to remove certain shots as Qyzbud suggested.



Still any more character suggestions would be great.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » September 28th, 2014, 3:57 pm

I've been a bit lazy lately, and most of my feedback has been provided in chat — good for real-time communication, but not ideal for reference's sake. :?

Anyhow, I'll reiterate that I really like the way the way the raindrop splashes look now that you've given them gravity; they look a lot more realistic and awesome now. 8-)

Sono mentioned a while back that the brief close-up of DK ought to be cut, but I think it's important for showing his expression of shock. I think a lot of the scene's impact comes from DK's attitude and reactions, and leaving the view zoomed out would be a mistake at that point.

I agree with Vege that it's nice to have a bit of variety with the brightness/colour of vegetation. Keep in mind that there are in fact darker-looking trees that make up the midground scenery in DKC's jungle levels, so it would certainly be acceptable for you to try something like that. Besides, even if there weren't darker trees in-game, I would think this sort of approach could improve the look of the scene without deviating too far from the in-game art style... as Vege said, the in-game art can be somewhat abstract, due to technical limitations, etc.

Keep up the good work, oh talented one! :D
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » September 29th, 2014, 11:59 am

Thanks for the comments Qyzbud.

I changed the the trees to remove those bright coloured ones and made them darker.
The trees are all instances and I can't easily change pacific trees.
I also added sound effects.



Let me know what you think of the changes. Thanks!

Also sonosublime. Have any comments on the cave scene?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby vege » September 29th, 2014, 1:19 pm

@Cyclone
I see only positive changes. Now it looks fantastic: The left foot of Cranky, it shade, etc; all good. It looks nice with those colours i guess. :thumbs: Only a detail:
I hear/see a slight mismatch at 0:05-0:07 between the audio and the mouth of Donkey Kong, maybe with opening / closing of mouth more "radical" would be perfect (sorry for my bad english, i hope you understand :oops: ).

About the second video: the gravity effect of the droplets on the trees could have a lower value than the house because the leaves are less harsh than the wooden (of the house). On the other hand, I like the new colouring/ambiental sound, it looks/sounds more natural, very nice!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » September 30th, 2014, 2:12 am

The jungle storm is looking great, Cyclone. Mostly minor suggestions:

1. For DK's angry face, have his eyes be looking at Cranky instead of down at the ground.
2. Regarding DK's cry when he discovers the plundered banana hoard, the more I listen to it, the more it sounds over-the-top and out of place. I think the best one would be when DK takes a hit from an enemy in the Retro games.

Apart from that, the only major issue I have is with the dialogue: Parts of it are missing, and do not quite match up with the timing in the script.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 1st, 2014, 7:51 pm

Thanks for the comments guys.

Sonosublime I made the changes you suggested. I don't know how I missed that part of the script.

*currently compiling* will upload later

I am going through the process of going to the very beginning of the script and taking another pass at the animation. So far I just have shots 1-2 done. There is sound. I like how the atmosphere is coming along.




Thoughts suggestions are always welcome. :D
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » October 2nd, 2014, 1:54 am

Looking good!

The stormy sounds are great, but I feel as though there ought to be a few more claps/rumbles of thunder to complement all of that lightning. Fortunately, I don't suppose you'd have to worry too much about synchronising the audio with the video, as there is always a certain amount of delay between lightning and thunder (although honestly, it'd probably 'feel' better to have them in sync — even if it's not the way real-world physics works!).

Also, it looks to me as though shadows are completely missing from beneath the trees and foliage in the first shot — hopefully that's a quick fix!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 2nd, 2014, 1:48 pm

Ok I added some shadows and added an extra bit of thunder.

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby spaceman2028 » October 2nd, 2014, 3:04 pm

Cyclone wrote:Vege I implemented most of your suggestions. And made changes to remove certain shots as Qyzbud suggested.



Still any more character suggestions would be great.


Swap around the time when the texts "Diddy...Gone...My best friend..." and "Oh no, this is a disaster!" appear. Along with DK's scream and..."panting," i guess you can call it, when the first text appears.

And like he said, the second text i mentioned should have DK making a scared face(or sad one, if you prefer).

Other than that looks great!
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » October 2nd, 2014, 4:07 pm

Cyclone wrote:Ok I added some shadows and added an extra bit of thunder.
Spoiler!


That looks better, but the undergrowth itself still doesn't appear to cast shadows. If it's not too RAM/processor intensive, I think soft shadows to darken the ground beneath the broadleaf foliage would help give the scene a bit more depth and realism/believability. :)

Also, it might be good to use two different thunder sounds, rather than having the exact same sample played twice. I'm not sure if it would stand out to everyone, but it does to me. You might be able to just adjust the panning/volume a little to make the second strike sound different, but a different sample would probably be a better bet.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 3rd, 2014, 11:40 am

spaceman i'm not sure what you mean buy swapping around the time.


Qyzbud is this better? I used an Ambient Occlusion pass, just a portion where the undergrowth is most visible.

As for the sound I added a bit more thunder. I agree that there shouldn't be two sound effects that are the same. The sounds can easily be fixed any time.


Now off to shot #3. DK In his bed. Going to be a difficult one...

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby spaceman2028 » October 3rd, 2014, 1:14 pm

Cyclone wrote:spaceman i'm not sure what you mean buy swapping around the time.


I mean when the text and/or sound occurs. Nice start by the way although i see no changes.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 6th, 2014, 1:07 pm

Here is shot #3 in draft quality.
Does it look natural enough? I think it looks a bit off.

DK in bed sleeping
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Super Luigi! » October 10th, 2014, 4:08 am

I'm no expert, as you know,
But I'm still glad for what you show.
DK's movements are quite right,
Yet I still can see your plight.
Perhaps his arms should rest a little,
Because right now they seem a tad brittle.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 10th, 2014, 12:54 pm

A tad brittle? hmm well hear is an updated version.

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Qyzbud » October 10th, 2014, 1:06 pm

The lighting looks a lot nicer in the updated version.

The subtle movements look nice to me, but DK's left arm looks kind of awkward posed like that. I'm not exactly sure how I'd suggest you change it, but maybe just a bit of counterclockwise rotation, pivoting at his shoulder would help?
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » October 10th, 2014, 2:39 pm

I would suggest looking at pictures of the way people lie down and try to pose DK like that.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 12th, 2014, 10:55 am

I took your suggestion sonosublime and posed DK more realistically. I think its better. I also made DK breathing.
Got any suggestions before I render the fur?

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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby sonosublime » October 13th, 2014, 1:35 pm

That looks a lot better. Although maybe straighten out his legs and put the left off the right one.
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby Cyclone » October 20th, 2014, 11:08 am

I got shots 1-6 pretty much done and with sound. For the near final phase of the of act 1.

I have been working the sound affects and scenes to create an affective stormy atmosphere.

Feel free to point out areas that need improving and also areas you do like.
The suggestions will used for the final pass of the animation. I know there isn't such thing as a final but whatever.





Thanks for the continued feedback. :thumbs:
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Re: DKC 3D Modeling/Animation Project

Postby spaceman2028 » October 21st, 2014, 5:34 am

Everything looks great thus far. The only change i would make, and this is not a necessary addition, is to have the Gnawty have DKC64 sound effects rather than the noise made by Squeals. It sounds better in my opinion.
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