Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Talk about the original Donkey Kong Country for SNES and VC.
The ports can be discussed in the DKC Ports (GBC, GBA) subforum.

Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Katastrophe Kong » December 27th, 2013, 9:02 am

I noticed we have one for DKC2 and DKC3, but not an official one for DKC (and if we do please remove this one in lieu of burning me at the stake and sacrificing me to the dark lord.) So here we can share and discuss findings relating to the varying changes and differences Donkey Kong Country went through during it's production.


Here is a small collection of stuff pertaining to the topic gathered from various parts of the forum:
(Feel free to add if I left anything out.)


Cody wrote:I just think it's really odd how the lava levels have an entrance (the only one you can interact with, to boot) but absolutely no exit. There's absolutely no reason for them to even have an entrance to begin with (given the Kongs don't run out of an entrance like in DKC)... Billy Dee's post about Loveday saying the lava levels didn't make it in due to time constraints is pretty damn interesting, though.


We know lava levels were intended to be in DKC but didn't make it in due to time restraints, the DKC2 lava level archetypes have a cave level entrance similar to the level entrances in DKC, and the
possibility of the existence of some leftover elements from that concept.

Mattrizzle wrote:One difference I spotted in those scans:
Spoiler!
Image
Look at the topmost screenshot. The sign says "KONGS BANANA HORDE" instead of "KONG'S BANANA HOARD!" They changed it because horde usually refers to a large group of people and other intelligent living things, which doesn't really fit with fruit. Notice that the apostrophe is also missing from "KONGS."


We know that an earlier version of the Banana Hoard sign had typos.

Qyzbud wrote:Cheers for that. Hey, I have a thought to add; if you activate the PAR code 7E003E21, it takes you to an empty jungle area with boss music playing... I wonder if that's where the Dumb Drum battle was originally going to take place?
Spoiler!
Image

Spoiler!
Image



We know that in the game exists an earlier version of Boss Dumb Drum's venue.

Qyzbud wrote:I've always thought the very first level of the very first game in our very favourite game series of all time... was a little out of place.

Jungle Hijinxs
No rhyme, no alliteration, no pun... and I believe the spelling is incorrect, too! (Many references suggest 'hijinks' — and a 'k' would be more DK-riffic, anyway!)
Why on earth did Rare choose this name for DK's home turf? :scratch:

It has been mentioned here that this level used to be called 'Jungle Japes' prior to the game's release — a name DK64 fans will recognise.

Spoiler!
Image


Further use of 'Jungle Japes' as the level name, from Mexican 'Club Nintendo' magazine:
Spoiler!
Image

These snippets were found on pages 11 & 12 of Club Nintendo — AÑO (Year) 3, No. 11


This long-abandoned name is a much more catchy and fitting one, I think.

Why do you think 'Jungle Hijinxs' was chosen for the name, rather than Jungle Japes?


We know that the earlier name for "Jungle Hijinx" was "Jungle Japes."

Mattrizzle wrote:Massive bump to say that I've pinpointed more strangeness in DKC's backgrounds, in both the SNES and GBA versions!
For the original version, look at the second part of Kongo Jungle's map.
Spoiler!
Image

Notice anything unusual around Funky's Flights? That barrel doesn't look like a jumbo jet to me...
Spoiler!
Image

...but it does have wings! Could this be an early design that they forgot to replace?...
For the GBA port, look at the background of the screen where you given the objective of a bonus area.
Spoiler!
Image

Spoiler!
Image

There's two differences here:
  1. The most obvious one: The scroll at the top left of the image reads "Donkey Kong's Island" instead of "Donkey Kong Country."
  2. The most shocking one: The smokestacks are in the forest instead of on top of the building! Because of this, there's a clearer view of the tip of "DK's hair".
This opens up another question. What is that building on DK's forehead? It looks nothing like the factories that appear in the Kremkroc Industries map, and for a good reason--It's not a factory, but a temple! I can clearly see steps and four columns along the front of it.
A screenshot of this old map appears in Electronic Gaming Monthly Volume 61, which Retromags has scans of:
Spoiler!
Image



We know there a few different and earlier versions of the DKC world map which include a change from "Donkey Kong Island" to "Donkey Kong Country" (maybe that was a very early version of the game's title (?), a change in location of the smoke stacks, the possibility of a "temple" world, and that there was possibly a different design for the Jumbo Jet.

And we access to all of the resources at The Cutting Room Floor (resources which have been discussed by the Atlas.)


Now the new discussion begins.

First off, I found this video hanging around:



Some notable differences include:

13:25 - A shot of Reptile Rumble in daytime without any rain or lightning (this is seen throughout the video)
13:51 - Normal rainy Reptile Rumble, showing the banana counter going over 100 and the Kongs don't change color to match the lighting
14:00 - The unused Expresso flying animation for DK
14:09 - Klump is immune to DK's jump
Veteran Venturer
Bananas received 31
Posts: 578
Joined: 2009


Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Katastrophe Kong » December 27th, 2013, 2:32 pm

CountryFan wrote:Don't you mean Ropey Rampage?


Oh poop, how did I make that mistake >_< Thank you. :oops:
Veteran Venturer
Bananas received 31
Posts: 578
Joined: 2009

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » December 28th, 2013, 1:37 am

Clips at 14:21 and 14:27 show Jungle Hijinxs (or Jungle Japes, as it may have been named then) with rain!
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Katastrophe Kong » December 28th, 2013, 5:51 am

Mattrizzle wrote:Clips at 14:21 and 14:27 show Jungle Hijinxs (or Jungle Japes, as it may have been named then) with rain!


Wow, that's awesome! Maybe the game was supposed to change weather randomly or sync up with local weather and time.

EDIT: Some more stuff found from those magazine scans supplied by Gaz:

Another shot of the unused DK-flying-on-Expresso frame and a shot of one of the unused bonus rooms.
Spoiler!
Image
Veteran Venturer
Bananas received 31
Posts: 578
Joined: 2009


Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Katastrophe Kong » December 28th, 2013, 7:59 am



Forgot to mention that I edited the first post in the topic to include a lot more stuff.

I already linked to The Cutting Room Floor, but I totally forgot about the Mario Wiki. Thanks for posting it :)

EDIT: I remember seeing this on DKwiki, it appears to be an early box art for the game.

Spoiler!
Image


EDIT EDIT: WOW WAIT how the heck did they get Funky's Jumbo Jet if they haven't even beaten Reptile Rumble?

Spoiler!
Image
Veteran Venturer
Bananas received 31
Posts: 578
Joined: 2009

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Koto » February 2nd, 2014, 4:13 am

According to tcrf (http://tcrf.net/Donkey_Kong_Country_(SNES)#Unused_Music) exists an earlier version of "Bad Boss Boogie" with slower tempo and different instrument pointers.

Is there a .SPC file or PAR code avaliable of these variation :huh:
Newcomer
Posts: 1
Joined: 2014

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » February 2nd, 2014, 3:14 pm

Here's an SPC dump...


...and a PAR code for US versions 1.0 and 1.1:
8AB19824
8AB199F7
8AB19AE9

Go to a boss level to hear it. Keep in mind that the instrument samples will be messed up, the track won't increase in tempo as it should, and one channel won't play at all. The latter two problems occur because the echo command in this track has one extra byte compared to the final version's command.

I can't make a code for the other versions, as it doesn't exist in those.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Thrik » January 22nd, 2015, 4:32 am

There was a discussion on DK Vine about Donkey Kong Island's hair not being visible. I knew I'd seen a shot with the hair present before, so thanks to those who found the Donkey Kong Land/DKC beta images showing the chimneys in a different position, thus revealing the snow-covered hair.

One thing that I spotted and didn't see mentioned here is that the chimneys are actually still in their original beta position in DKC2:

Image

And the hair is much more prominent:

Image

It looks to me like a last-minute Photoshop (or similar) was done to move the chimneys, and the whole factory area was meant to be on the unseen side of Donkey Kong Island. Perhaps a temple world was abandoned, or — probably more likely due to the timing — it just seemed smarter to Rare to space the worlds out a bit more on the map. This would explain why the chimneys were pretty badly incorporated, seemingly coming out of a temple and cutting off the island's 'hair'.
Newcomer
Bananas received 6
Posts: 7
Joined: 2015

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Thrik » February 23rd, 2015, 7:30 am

I decided to turn the whole chimney/hair thing into a little article so that I could get back into the swing of writing, and it was just spotlighted on Kotaku. Nothing new to you guys, but thought you might enjoy it anyway!

http://kotaku.com/todays-selection-of-a ... 1687301484

I am pleased to be bringing the joy of obsessing over beta material to a wider audience. :lol:
Newcomer
Bananas received 6
Posts: 7
Joined: 2015

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » February 23rd, 2015, 2:40 pm

Bravo! I like all of the comparison shots you included in the article. I never thought to look at the renders of the island in the DKC2 maps.

However, I did notice a couple of factual errors:
  • Vine Valley is DKC's third world.
  • The monochrome version of the map actually comes from the Game Boy Advance version of Donkey Kong Country, not Donkey Kong Land.

One new thing to add: Another render of the island was found buried in the Kiosk Demo version of Donkey Kong 64, as seen at The Cutting Room Floor. It, too, has the smokestacks on the right side.

(Also, one thing I have had to correct people about countless times: My name spelled Mattrizzle, with two Ts.)
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Thrik » February 23rd, 2015, 10:15 pm

Whoops, thanks for pointing those out (can't believe I said Vine Valley was world #2 seeing as I've played this game approximately a billion times). I've made corrections now. :oops:
Newcomer
Bananas received 6
Posts: 7
Joined: 2015

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Thrik » February 24th, 2015, 7:00 am

Is 64x64 the size it was in DK64, or is there a bigger version floating around? That is the only render I'm aware of where the mysterious brown object at the bottom of the screen isn't clipped off and hidden — I'd really like to know what the heck that thing is.

I speculated it was an early glimpse of DKC2's Gangplank Galleon (look at the DKC2 world map and you'll probsbly see what I mean, but that DK64 render clearly shows that it's something in the sea near the island.
Newcomer
Bananas received 6
Posts: 7
Joined: 2015

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » February 24th, 2015, 10:52 am

Yes, the actual texture is 64x64, unfortunately.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Lanky Kong » August 8th, 2015, 4:42 pm

Image

Basically this was Donkey Kong with a minning hat on before the idea of Squawks.

...but it happened that it's not that level only... but...
Trainee Trekker
Bananas received 10
Posts: 84
Joined: 2009

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Retro » September 15th, 2015, 1:45 pm

If you guys want to really expand this topic's information, you should look at Greg Mayles' Twitter feed. It's full of all kinds of pre-release content currently.
Tourist
Bananas received 4
Posts: 10
Joined: 2015

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby VideoViking » September 16th, 2015, 4:36 pm

I'm going to "copy-paste" the text that was uploaded to Twitter, for archival purposes:

Gregg Mayles, from his Twitter account, wrote:
CHARACTER NAMES - DK FAMILY
Donkey Kong - Our familiar friend
Diddy Kong - DK's little buddy
Cranky Kong - Old man Kong
Candy Kong - Feminine Ms. Kong
Funky Kong - Cool n' Hip Kong

CHARACTER NAMES - GOOD GUYS
Rhino - Rambi
Ostrich/Emu - Expresso
Frog- Winky
Owl - Hooter
Swordfish - Enguarde
Mole - Miney

CHARACTER NAMES - KREMLINGS
Chief Kremling - Kommander K. Rool
Kremling Magician - Kloak
Fat Kremling - Klump
Muscle Kremling - Krusha
Teethy Kremling - Klaptrap
Rock Kremling - Kroc Rock
Statue Kremling - Krumble
Green Kremling - Klanger
Little Kremling - Kritter
Mine Cart Kremling - Krash
Robot Kremling - Krocbot

CHARACTER NAMES - BADDIES
Armadillo - Army
Snake - Mr. Hister
Wasp - Zinger
Fireball - Fizzle
Fish 1 - Bloop
Fish 2 - Gloop
Jellyfish - Mr. Squidge
Porcupine Fish - Puftup
Starfish - Shuri
Shark - Chomps
Nasty Beetle - Veedub
Vulture - Necky
Tiny Vulture - Mini Necky
Yeti (Iceman) - Frozone
Eel (Moray) - Mobo
Clam - Ms. Clamity


THE VIKING ANALYSIS
- The following names were trade marked as of March 8, 1994 (eight months before November 21 release date): all Kongs, all Good Guys, Kommander K. Rool, Klaptrap, Krocbot, Army, Necky
- Alternate Candy Kong names included Blondie Kong and Honey Kong. They could have been applied to Dixie or Tiny, but never did.
- There was to be an owl (Hooter) and a mole (Miney). Hooter was replaced by Squawks the parrot. Being a mole, Miney could have been used to 1) dig up stuff buried underneath the ground or 2) pop out of the ground to give the Kongs an item or weapon. High jumps and DK's hand slap effectively wiped Miney's use to oblivion... until probably Donkey Kong Land, where he would change allegiance to the Kremling clan. Judge for yourself in this MarioWiki entry...
- Kloak, Puftup and Shuri became DKC2 enemies. Their abilities or attack movement would have been the same if they were used in the first Country game.
- Veedub's brief description of a "nasty beetle" fits none other than Click-Clack, another DKC2 enemy.
- Rock Kroc's original name was the reverse. Rare wanted to keep the gimmick of all Kremling beings beginning exclusively with the letter K. This pattern was broken once more with the DKC3 Kremling Re-Koil.
- As a statue Kremling, Krumble would have been another one-time enemy. The only logical fit would have been the DKC1 Temple levels (Millstone Mayhem and Temple Tempest).
- Slippa's original name Hister was a rhyming gimmick: he would have been called Mr. Hister.
- Fizzle would have been a Podoboo-type projectile where it rises up out of the lava. Lava levels didn't occur until DKC2. In the second half of Oil Drum Alley, flames emit in and out of the oil drum. That fire might have been Fizzle.
- Given the print date of the document Mayles provided, we can assume that the initial miniature-type Necky that Mattrizzle discovered in ROM data was tested before they opted to branch the vultures. Mini-Necky would assume the original Necky's size, while the larger Necky retained his ability to drop nuts from altering angles. "A year and a half later, we're closing in on the finish of the game." - Tim Stamper (Fits the timeline, don't you think?)
- The eel enemy, Mobo, is the only DKC3 enemy on this list. A Mario Wiki entry for Bazza hasa beta screencap of a blue eel - that could be Mobo. Now we know what happened: Rare tried to get Mobo into a DKC game, but it just didn't fit. When it came time to do DKC3, they "changed" Mobo to a barracuda and named it Bazza.

Those are my thoughts and theories. Matt, are any of these facts eligible for The Cutting Room Floor's entry of Donkey Kong Country?
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 35
Posts: 310
Joined: 2009

Re: Unused Content found in DKC Trilogy!

Postby Mattrizzle » September 16th, 2015, 10:08 pm

Also of note from that list:
  • The game's title at this point in time is Donkey Kong's Monkey Mayhem.
  • The name of the rendering technique is Render FX (or R.F.X.), instead of Advanced Computer Modeling (or ACM).
  • K. Rool's rank is Kommander, not King.
  • The name Klanger is described as a "Green Kremling." Either green Kritters had distinct names from their multicolored brethren, or there was one extra type of Kremling at this stage.
  • The baddies Gnawty and Croctopus are absent. Bitesize and Chomps, Jr. could be missing as well, unless they are named Bloop and Gloop. Also, no boss names exist at this point. These omissions suggest that these characters hadn't been created yet.
I will continue this list later in the interest of time.

The items in the #DKCrevealed Twitter posts definitely need to be included somewhere in TCRF, but they would be a better fit for a not-yet-created prerelease page for the game. Main pages for games only include content that is present in their data, but not used.

Also, I'm no moderator, but I think this topic should remain solely to document unused data present in the ROMs of the DKC trilogy, not development material external to the them. Any discussion regarding development/design documents should be continued in the Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic instead, unless they are directly connected to unused data. While these items are worth discussing, the words "found in" are in the title of this topic for a reason. Any thoughts, Qyzbud or Simion32?
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Qyzbud » September 16th, 2015, 10:37 pm

Agreeing with both Retro and Mattrizzle, I've shifted the latest #DKCrevealed musings here.

:nicework:
Atlas Author
Bananas received 669
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008


Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » September 20th, 2015, 1:07 am

From the post where Gregg Mayles shows a plan of the Monkey Mines map layout:
  • Platform Perils was planned as the world's first level instead of Winky's Walkway.
  • Misty Mine was considered as the second level, then the fourth level before being replaced with Mine Cart Carnage and Stop & Go Station, respectively.
  • The point at which Millstone Mayhem can be accessed in the final version was once where Oil Drum Alley would appear. This is the only instance where the archetype completely changed.
  • Candy's Save Point is labelled Slinky's Save. Candy's is the only Kong family area in the final version with a non-alliterative name, so it's evident this wasn't always the case.
  • Cranky's Cabin is labelled Cronky's Cabin. As I previously mentioned in this post, the 'a' in Cranky's name on the Cranky's Cabin sign looks odd in-game. That's because someone just added a tail to the 'o'. Makes sense if his name was originally Cronky!
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby VideoViking » November 13th, 2015, 9:23 am

Another "little detail" confirmed: the beta version had the KONG letters echoed in every level, including jungle-archetype levels. Confirmed via a Nintendo Power Laserdisc used exclusively in SNES kiosks. I saw one of those at my old Target (Fedco had one as well).



DK discussion starts at 18:32. Sample of an echoed KONG letter is at 18:58. There even is an alternate Krusha death voice.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 35
Posts: 310
Joined: 2009

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Qyzbud » November 13th, 2015, 2:47 pm

Hey, nice video! There's an earlier bit of DKC hype at 16:08, and some DKL details at 3:25, too. :thumbs:

What do you mean by "echoed KONG letters"? Are you referring to the sound made when collecting them?
Atlas Author
Bananas received 669
Posts: 3228
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby VideoViking » November 13th, 2015, 7:01 pm

Yes. It can be difficult to hear because of the talking.

I now have a theory on the echoes. The official audio rips has the reverb intact. But when you play the jungle levels, there is no reverb. Possible reasons:

1. There are alternate audio versions of the same SFX for the KONG letters without the reverb, still waiting to be ripped from the ROM.
2. There is an audio script (ASM maybe) which handles the reverb. Could be an if-else statement requiring the reverb to kick in as long as the level being played is not of the jungle archetype. And if that is the case, I'd bet that the script was rewritten before release.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 35
Posts: 310
Joined: 2009

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Mattrizzle » November 15th, 2015, 12:05 am

Your second reason is close to being correct. Each song has an SPC command which sets the echo reverb for sound effects. Only one instance of the sound effect data exists in the ROM.
Treasure Hunter
Bananas received 167
Posts: 369
Joined: 2008

Re: Donkey Kong Country Beta Research & Discussion Topic

Postby Lanky Kong » August 12th, 2016, 12:45 pm

I... don't get it...

Can someone show me an example of the sounds? with and without reverb?
Trainee Trekker
Bananas received 10
Posts: 84
Joined: 2009


Return to Donkey Kong Country

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests